In this episode, hosts Brad and Michael, along with series regular Jay Reyero, share the story of a primary care physician who signed on to a turnkey diagnostic service promising fast revenue with minimal effort. When insurance policy changes, poor contract protections, and vendor limitations created unexpected financial and operational risks, they learned that “turnkey” does not mean “risk-free.” Tune in for practical lessons on vetting vendors, reviewing contracts, ensuring billing compliance, and maintaining control over your practice when new opportunities arise.
Listen to the full episode using the player below, or by visiting one of the links below. Contact ByrdAdatto if you have any questions or would like to learn more.
Transcript
*The below transcript has been edited for readability.
Intro: [00:00:00] Welcome to Legal 123s with ByrdAdatto. Legal issues simplified through real client stories and real world experiences, creating simplicity in 3, 2, 1.
Brad: Welcome back to another episode of Legal 123s with ByrdAdatto. I’m your host, Brad Adatto, with my co-host, Michael Byrd.
Michael: As a business and health care law firm, we meet a lot of interesting people and learn their amazing stories. This season’s theme is Unintended Consequences. We sometimes find ourselves in a situation that can be traced back to a seemingly inconsequential or unrelated decision.
Brad: Yes. And for those in TV land, you already noticed, there is someone sitting next to us as usual, not as usual, but it feels like usual – series regular, Jay Reyero, our partner in crime is with us today.
Jay: Yes. Thanks for having me, guys. Last time I was here, we had that fun little story about the Utah Hockey Club and how they really wanted to be known as the Yetis.
Brad: Yeah, honestly, Jay, I was a little bit disappointed as [00:01:00] the story kind of fell flat, not as exciting as I thought it would be.
Jay: All right, Brad, for the last time, you have to stop trying to make the Utah Brads happen. It’s not going to work. Anyway, so that story got me thinking afterwards about a fascinating topic that my kids, my girls actually really, really love – really big fans of. Do you guys know what cryptozoology is?
Michael: No, but I think we should make Brad pronounce it and then spell it.
Brad: Fine. But if I am pronouncing it, I’m using some type of accent like cryptozoology.
Jay: Okay. So cryptozoology is the study of animals that are rumored to exist, but have not been proven by mainstream science. And so these creatures are often called cryptids. And while the field isn’t recognized as a formal science, it’s a gold mine for folklore, mystery pop culture. Think of it as the zoological version of what ifs. Brad, you and I love that from the comics. And this is [00:02:00] where science meets storytelling. So of course the Yeti, the abdominal snowman, which is the Himalayan legend, said to roam snowy mountain ranges. And basically his bigfoot’s frosty, or cousin
Michael: I don’t know. I’m picturing the liger from Napoleon Dynamite. Part lion. Part tiger. it was pretty much his favorite animal.
Jay: Yes. Well, funny enough, ligers are real because they’re the offsprings of male lions and female tigers. It’s a zoo-bred hybrid as is the tigon, which is a result of mating a male tiger with a female lion. But I thought this would be a little fun time to quiz both of you and see what your range of cryptozoology knowledge is. So, are you guys ready?
Brad: Yes. And I approve the “Ti” topic, especially since we’re using ligers in the show.
Jay: Alright. All right. Here we go. I’m going to start off with a very, very easy one. So this cryptid allegedly lurks in the depths of a large freshwater lake in the Scottish highlands, and is often [00:03:00] described as a [01:01] plesiosaur-like creature. The famous 1934 surgeons photograph helped launched it into global fame, though later it was revealed to be a hoax. Michael.
Michael: Well, even I know this one and don’t you dare tell Brad. It’s a hoax. I’m going to let Brad answer this. because he likens himself practically as Scottish.
Brad: It’s not Practically I am Scottish and everyone knows Jay, the answer’s “Nessie” the legendary creature that does still inhabit the Loch Ness in Scotland, I’m quite certain when I was living there, maybe after a few [03:33] Scotland brews or wherever they brew from, I think I saw a Nessie.
Jay: You had a conversation with it, didn’t you?
Brad: I might have.
Jay: Okay, good. Good. All right, so that was nice and easy. So let’s ramp it up a little bit more this time. So this cryptids name literally means goat sucker in Spanish, Brad, don’t giggle, and is blamed for mysterious livestock deaths descriptions vary from a reptilian creature with spines to a [00:04:00] hairless dog-like beast.
Brad: Well, I don’t really know how to answer that one Jay, but my 13-year-old boy brain is going a little crazy because if we substitute the S for the F – I can’t say it out loud though. See, even Kennedy gets it, she’s laughing.
Michael: My brain’s not too far different because my guess was Brad.
Jay: Close. So this one is the Chupacabra, the legendary creature said to inhibit or inhabit the Southern US and Latin America. So, okay, last one. Here we go. This one’s going to be tricky because it’s probably one you’ve never heard of. Often described as a living dinosaur similar to a sauropod. This cryptid is said to inhabit remote African rivers despite numerous expeditions. No solid evidence has surfaced.
Michael: I don’t even know what a sauropod is, so I have no idea.
Brad: I actually don’t remember the name, but I swear I read a book that something that was deep in the Congo that [00:05:00] I read this a long time ago, but that was what they were hunting for. It was actually based on the true story or something like that.
Jay: All right, gold star for Brad. And that’s just because he read a book. You are correct. this is the Mokele-mbembe. It’s a legendary creature from the Congo River Basin.
Brad: I definitely could not have pronounced that either.
Jay: I had to look it up, and so, so my book, my kids have a book on all these different creatures. And they’re even more, you’ve got the Kraken, the megalodon, the moth man, or even the Jersey devil, which imagine this. A bipedal kangaroo-like creature with a horse or goat-like head, leathery bat wings, horns, small arms with clawed hands, legs with cloven hooves and a fork forked pointed tail.
Michael: Okay. I’m picturing the campfire terror we gave to our kids when they were growing up with the legend of Goatman here in Texas.
Brad: Yeah, I remember correctly, the legend, they always called the Goatman, Michael, for some reason.
Michael: Not the goat sucker. [00:06:00]
Jay: Oh man. I knew that was going to go off the deep end.
Michael: All right, let’s get into our story now that our audience will have nightmares tonight, and see if Brad and I can keep things on the rail.
Jay: Alright, so let’s start with today’s story. And it involves a primary care practice up in the Pacific Northwest, and it was owned by a Dr. George Henderson.
Brad: All right. I like the name, Jay. And for the audience members who don’t know, Jay’s actually referring some to a movie reference here from the late eighties, Harry and the Henderson. The movie starts off filing a camp trick where George Henderson drives his car back to suburban Seattle, where he happens to hit Bigfoot with his station wagon and believing it to be dead, he threw Bigfoot on top of his car, drove it to town thinking that he would make fame and fortune. Spoiler alert, Bigfoot did not die.
Michael: I have no idea what movie y’all are talking about, [00:07:00] but I’m glad you at least told me it was a movie that we’re talking about who Dr. George is.
Jay: Yes. We had to lean into our eighties movie reference again. So Dr. Henderson was like a lot of primary care physicians dealing with the hassle of increased administrative work from a revenue cycle management perspective, and of course facing declining reimbursements. And so as a result, Dr. Henderson constantly was keeping an eye out just to find some way to boost those practice revenues.
Brad: Very common theme that we hear from primary care physicians when they’re trying to find that new service line.
Jay: Yep. So like a lot of docs, he was attending a, a medical conference where he met our other character, we’ll call him Harry Bigfoot. And the best way to describe Harry was he was a deal man, always coming up with ideas, doing deals through conversations, pitching grand ideas, and then moving on to the next thing. Just a really big health care entrepreneur.
Brad: Yeah. I thought you were going to say the best way to describe it is the giant man’s Harry, but okay. I like the name. I like the reference here. So [00:08:00] second, Harry’s making me a little bit nervous. because you know, I like the whole off judgment, but the deal maker part makes me a little nervous about him.
Jay: Yeah. So at this conference, Dr. Henderson and Harry got to talking about Harry’s latest venture. And Harry had incubated this within another primary care practice, and it was a suite of diagnostic services that really boosted that practice’s revenue by almost $500,000 a year.
Michael: I’m guessing there’s got to be a catch here.
Jay: Yep. Sounds too good to be true, right. So here Harry’s pitch was very simple. Harry could provide everything Dr. Henderson needed to get up to running, offering all these diagnostic services to patients day one, no problem. He had secured the relationships, he had the equipment vendors, he could provide all the technical staff, he had all the protocols that you needed. He knew all the billing to generate the necessary documents from a medical revenue perspective. He knew the process to bill and collect to maximize collections. He had it all covered. Just sign up. We’re good to go.
Brad: [00:09:00] So what you’re describing is a COMM pitch that physicians will hear at these different trade show. And as lawyers, we know that each step of this model really needs to be vetted from step by step as you were describing. I’m sure the three of us had little red flag dings or dings going off in our head. So a little nervous about this relationship still. But I’m, I’m going to hold back until we get further into the story.
Michael: At the very least, we would at least we would all have our antennas up.
Yeah. So typically in health care, this is where we start hearing that little voice saying “scam alert”. And so, we start asking the questions. And this is actually what Dr. Henderson thought when he heard about it. I mean, this too good to be true. This has got to be, there’s some catch. But here’s the thing, the science behind the diagnostic services was real. It was there. There were clinical benefits to patients receiving diagnostic tests. Dr. Henderson could actually see the true value in the reports and the information that they were generating and how those could really help him treat his patients in a more holistic [00:10:00] way, so he was intrigued from a clinical and medical decision making perspective. And really what really appealed is, hey, he can get up and running quickly. It sounded like a no risk situation. And so he quickly signed an agreement with Harry to bring this service line into his practice and see what happens.
Brad: Well, you should have started off the story. This is a no risk process. But that sounds amazing. So tell us how did it play out?
Jay: Yeah, so for the next six months, everything was going great. He had effectively incorporated the tests within the usual treatment plans and the way that he interacted with his patients, and really brought on a significant number of patients to receive these services. He was seeing great results from the clinical perspective again, and how he was using this information and data to really treat patients in a much better way than he had ever done before. because he had more data at his disposal. And best of all, these collections were coming in consistently. They were coming in. He saw, at the end of the day, bottom line was increasing. It was [00:11:00] all going extremely well.
Definitely risk free.
Brad: Well, and I guess you could also say it does sound promising, right, to some capacity, but in other ways we know, Jay, this is the part where sometimes they get crushed. If we’re watching the movie, this might be the scene where Bigfoot does get hit by the station wagon.
Jay: I mean, it would be a real boring story if we just ended things there and said and I found $5. No. So it was about a year mark when things started going sideways, and it was all because of a fun little letter that we all like to see from a large health insurer that basically says, we believe that everything you’ve been doing and billing has been wrong for the last six months or however long they say. And therefore, you owe us all this money. And oh, by the way, we’re going to go ahead and assume that even before that you were doing things wrong, so you owe us even more money and you’ve got to pay everything or give us the medical records to show [00:12:00] that we’re wrong.
Michael: Yikes. Well, I would think this is something that Harry’s billing team would be able to deal with.
Jay: Yeah. You would think so, but they didn’t really understand what to do because while they had all the processes, all the protocols in place, they were just about using the forms and following the template. They didn’t really have the understanding and the background knowledge and the experience with, if something goes slightly off script, how do we deal with it? And so they had just learned this process, worked through it, cranked it out, do it in a very efficient manner. But once something goes a little bit to the right, they don’t know how to do it. It’s like when you have those – you’re talking to the customer service and they’re reading through a script and you ask them a question off, and they’re like, they go right back to the script, like, you didn’t say anything.
Brad: Well, yeah, Jay, this does seem a little bit counterintuitive to most people, that you have this amazing turnkey type of operation and team that comes in and they show up and they’re going to help you, and then bill [00:13:00] insurance providers, but they actually don’t actually understand billing. So yeah, what happened with Dr. Henderson? What do you do?
Jay: I mean, to that point, it’s not uncommon for these turnkey style vendors to be cranking through a process. And the whole thing is about volume. So even if they don’t collect on some, even if they don’t know how to do or handle some of the more complex things, that’s not the ones that they’re about; they’re about the rest of the volume that just follows the script that follows the process. And they know they’re going to lose some. They know that some things are going to work out, but for the most part, 95% of it is going to go smoothly. And so they’re betting on the 95%. At the end of the day, the vendor, it’s not their money. They get it if they get paid. But if they don’t, if there’s something wrong with it, that’s just kind of bad debt if you will, they just kind of write it off. So as you can imagine, Dr. Henderson was extremely frustrated because here he was and trusting Harry and his [00:14:00] team to develop and run this service line. And now he’s having to face dealing with a large health insurer that’s 800 pound gorilla, if you will or Bigfoot. And so he immediately reached out to Harry and said, “Harry, you’ve got to get this stuff fixed.”
Michael: Well, how did Harry respond?
Jay: So he showed empathy. I mean, he is a deal, man, and so he assured Dr. Henderson, “Look, I’ll figure it out. We’ll figure out what – everything’s going to be fine. Don’t worry about it.” You know, famous last words. And he basically blamed the health insurer for not knowing their own billing. It’s all their fault because it had always been paid before. So obviously if something changed, it’s on their end. But for now, let’s just keep doing what we’re doing. Everything else is working. And those one-offs, we’ll figure it out and we’ll deal with it later.
Brad: And I can say, I can understand why Dr. Henderson could believe Harry, that the health insurance companies didn’t understand what’s happening. I mean, we’ve all seen situations or been part of stories or too many times where the client is billing correctly, but for some reason, the health insurance [00:15:00] company thinks they must have done something incorrectly, so we’re not going to pay you, we’re going to audit you. In reality, they did nothing wrong. And so in this context, did they figure out what happened, Jay?
Jay: Yeah, we’ll see. Sometimes health insurers do like to play a fun little game where they change their policies, but they don’t really advertise it. They expect you to know about it, but they don’t tell you about it. And basically, they change their policies that are available online or through some kind of portal that you’ve lost the login five years ago to, and it’s the provider’s obligation to keep up to date with any of these changes. And so if they go through and change, you’ve got to know that they changed, and you’ve got to change accordingly. And apparently, in the beginning the way everything was working, billing was fine. There’s no issue. It was all going according to plan and follow the policies. But at some point, this health insurer changed their policy to make the billing of these particular tests and how they were billing these tests to be considered investigational and therefore wouldn’t be covered.
Brad: Yeah. That sounds like something that an insurance [00:16:00] company might do. Like, oh, no, this is the agreement that we’re going to agree to, unless otherwise we change it. And we may just send you a notice via link that everything we just agreed to just change, but yeah, that makes sense.
Michael: And give us our money back.
Brad: Yeah. And give us money back. So Jay, I think every listener’s probably just thinking some other questions, but maybe one of them, which is like, “Hey, just can Dr. Henderson just stop billing that insure or shift the cost just to the patients instead?”
Jay: Yeah, I mean, absolutely. That’s a very viable option in a theoretical sense. But here, the health insurer was one of the largest in the state, therefore covered a significant number of Dr. Henderson’s patients population. And so, it’d be a massive hit from a revenue perspective because the prospect of charging patients for these tests at the amount and what was being reimbursed and all of the complexity of that, it wasn’t even entertained by Dr. Henderson. He did not want his patients to suffer any financial consequences, especially those that had already had these tests and experienced it going through their insurance.
Michael: I’m curious, how did we get involved?
Jay: [00:17:00] Yeah, so Dr. Henderson reached out to us to see if we could help navigate the letter about the billing and the clawbacks. And we immediately brought in a billing expert who could look at the billing, see what was going on, confirm and help deal on the front lines with the insurance company because that’s what they do. And they could also help us figure out a strategy to kind of resolve the demand for money. I’ve worked with a lot of billing companies to try to figure out the best way to communicate and resolve that situation because that’s a financial immediate issue in crisis that that practice is dealing with. But Dr. Henderson obviously had lost trust in Harry, and so he also wanted to know like what were his rights under the contract? Like, what can he do from an operational perspective now?
Brad: Yeah. I’m sure the audience right now can sympathize with Dr. Henderson as to why he lost trust with Harry. but once you were brought in to guide Dr. Henderson, what did you find out?
Jay: I mean, it was a pretty straightforward independent contractor agreement, like we see a lot of times. So the terminations provisions were [00:18:00] pretty straightforward, and Dr. Henderson had a relatively easy out in this situation.
Michael: Oh, well, tell me more.
Jay: Yeah. So what we uncovered during the conversation with Dr. Henderson though was that his expectation was that life post-termination, nothing would change, meaning he had the vision of continuing to do all these diagnostic services and continue to treat the patients and continued to do everything, resolve the issue with the health insurer. So from a revenue perspective you know, and before there was a split of the revenue between him and Harry under the comp section of the agreement. But here now, he could just keep everything, he didn’t have to split it with anyone. He could do it all on his own. And so he felt like some of the loss maybe from that population that we were dealing with could be offset by being able to keep a hundred percent of everything rather than split it with Harry.
Brad: Yeah. Jay, I’m assuming this is the part where you had to have a hard conversation with Dr. Henderson.
Jay: We had to explain the way [00:19:00] the turnkey structure worked, and there was nothing left about the devices. There was nothing left, but the devices themselves from the service line, without Harry and his resources. He was the service line. And so Dr. Henderson had relied so heavily on everything that Harry was providing, that when Harry was gone, there was nothing left. And so the moment he gets rid of Harry, he effectively has to start from scratch with this service line.
Michael: I mean, we’ve seen these turnkey type deals. That’s almost your best case scenario. I mean, they are built to protect the doctor from cutting them out and doing it on their own. And oftentimes even more restrictive than having to start from scratch.
Brad: Yeah. And think about audience members from a third party, they don’t want the doctor to learn their secret sauce. They’re showing up with this turnkey model so that they can, they can gain some leverage or more importantly, some profitability, but they want to have teeth involved in it. And what about the money owed back to the health insurance? The [00:20:00] listeners are probably saying, all right, well Harry’s operation, right? Are they the business? Are they on the hook, Jay, for any portion of the money owed back?
Jay: Yeah. So that was the other problem, is that the compensation details in the contract were so poorly written because it was Harry’s agreement and no attorney was involved in looking at it. And so where it typically says net collections and you build in the ability to claw back from the service provider offset some of that risk that if you have to refund money, none of that was in there. And so there was really no obligation to reconcile what the true comp should have been based on the clawbacks, the overpayments, the refunds. And so really it was all sitting on Dr. Henderson’s shoulders.
Michael: Yikes. All right, let’s go to break. And when we come back, we can talk more about what Dr. Henderson decided to do and some takeaways from the story.
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Brad: Welcome back to Legal 123s with ByrdAdatto. I’m your host Brad Adatto, my co-host Michael Byrd, and series regular, Jay Rojero, who’s still here with us and the audience members knows, this season our theme is Unattended Consequences.
Michael: Yeah. So we have Dr. Henderson, our hero in the story, and Harry Bigfoot. Harry Bigfoot brought a turnkey service line to Dr. Henderson. Things were signed quickly once he felt like this was really [00:22:00] going to help the patients. And things went really well for about six months until they didn’t – blame the big bad insurance company for deciding to reimburse differently than they did before. And so, though it was the insurance company’s fault, that’s where a lot of problems with the relationship with Harry started to come into play because Dr. Henderson signed this without having someone review the contract. There was some contract provisions that were not protective and Dr. Henderson wanted to do this on his own, and then there was some potential roadblocks on that front as well. So Jay normally we would have Brad play dictionary and define for the audience our vocabulary words. But I think it’s your turn – I don’t feel like Brad’s up to the task right now. You mentioned turnkey when we’re talking about the service line, talk about what you mean.
Jay: Sure. So turnkey the meaning of or involving [00:23:00] the provision of a complete product or service that is ready for immediate use – turnkey.
Brad: Jay, I think Michael was looking for like, not the definition, straight out the dictionary, maybe away in which you could explain in like the practical world what is turnkey.
Michael: You overcorrected Brad.
Jay: Sure. So when we think about turnkey, basically what we’re thinking of, someone’s going to offer to provide you everything to do a particular task. And most of the time this is we’re thinking about in the business world, I’m going to provide you the people and the equipment or the resources necessary to do the thing I am offering. Great example is a management service organization, an MSO can be a type of turnkey style. We’re going to provide anything and everything. The analogy I like to use is that the MSO puts everything in place for the health care provider to walk in, unlock the door, flip on the switch, and start practicing. And so [00:24:00] in our story, it can be even narrower in a service line where Harry was saying, “Hey, for this particular service line, I can get you everything that you need to be able to up and running day one without any kind of issue.”
Brad: Yeah. And as you describe it, Jay, it’s common for the MSO to really be on the focus on the business side of things, allowing the practice to really focus on the medical decision making.
Michael: We’ve talked a lot on the show about the wave of longevity or anti-aging, and there is a common turnkey that we’ve seen come up more and more, and that’s the hormone pellets. And people want to add that service line. And there’s some companies out there that will do it, and they can be successful. They also have even stricter protections. I kind of alluded to that earlier, that Dr. Henderson could have even faced worse. And they’re building these, to my point earlier, they don’t want the doctor to cut out the middleman.
Jay: [00:25:00] Yeah, and kind of taking a step back; these arrangements can be beneficial for everyone involved, but there has to be some trust involved as well. As you saw from our story, at the end of the day Dr. Henderson lost that trust in Harry. And so, when we’re talking to a physician who’s being brought this opportunity it’s really important not just to build in the protections in the agreement side of things, but to have that conversation with them on the front end about expectations of what if this goes wrong, do you understand kind of what you do and don’t have at the end of the day? And what does it mean on a go forward basis if, in this case Harry goes away, what does that mean? What does that mean to the service line? What have you done to protect yourselves against having to start from scratch? The problem is, and this is where a lot of the friction comes in as Brad mentioned earlier, these vendors, they are very protective of [00:26:00] needing to be part of the equation. They don’t want to get cut out; they don’t want to be circumvented. And so it’s really difficult sometimes to kind of balance that, but it’s a conversation you have to have on the front end whenever you’re being approached by this.
Brad: Yeah. And all great points, Jay. And the second onto that is understand from on your medical side the operational impact it’ll have on your team in general. What will be acquired of your team as to how well they interact with this outside third party? Meaning, what controls will be done for the medical side and when you implement implemented versus what controls are being implemented from this third party company?
Michael: Yeah. We talked about some of these other protections. Sometimes you’ll see in the contract itself, post termination revenue sharing requirements. So you think you’re out, but then if you’re using a certain product that was covered in the contract in this turnkey deal, you’re still having to pay or liquidated damages [00:27:00] to terminate that are almost cost prohibitive. I mean, we’ve had this conversation so many times with the clients where they’re just like, well, I can’t afford to switch over, which is exactly what the company wants. They want you. They want you with them long term.
Jay: Yeah. The service provider creates their arrangement so that you need them, and they make it a very valuable proposition to say, look, you don’t have to expend any of the money because I’ve already done it, and so really we’ll just split the money that’s coming in after the fact. So it becomes really attractive, and they’ll build everything so that they have to be part of that equation. And that’s fine. It can work, it can be successful, and that can sometimes be what is needed to give patients the right care or the enhanced level of care. But you just have to understand what does it mean and how that really does tie you to that service provider probably for the long term.
Brad: Yeah. And the practice needs to remember that under these circumstances, they didn’t be extremely, they conscious of the medical decision making. Meaning, that they can’t just rely on all the outside provider, what they’re telling them, the details [00:28:00] they’re giving them about how to practice and order these particular services. obviously, it’s critical for them to investigate, make sure that they’re being consistent with what the medical board wants or in this case, the insurance providers. They can’t just file like the “form” that was being used because otherwise they could fall outside of allowing a third party to be a part of the medical decision making.
Michael: And then kind of final thoughts, some of these turnkey agreements will provide marketing support and you really have to watch out for breaking the advertising rules, and so we’ve had some clients get tripped. I think we’ve done an episode on one where a client – the turnkey company was out there promoting the best this and the best that, and it violated – actually got a letter from the medical board. And so you really, again, have to watch out from a health care compliance and board rule perspective what they’re doing.
Brad: Well, Jay, we’re almost out of time. So first off, have the audience tell him what happened [00:29:00] with Dr. Henderson and the service line? Any final takeaways?
Jay: I mean, real quick, he ended up believing in everything that the test did. So, he rebuilt it from the ground up in house and he actually created for those patients under the other the large health insurer, a reoccurring revenue model. So he replaced the old revenue with reoccurring revenue. And my only takeaway is that Ligers are real and Nessie is fake.
Brad: Michael, you got 10 seconds.
Michael: Go Brad.
Brad: Well, agree with everything you said except for the last thing you said. Nessie is real well audience members. It’s all time we have left. So next and Wednesday we will not continue this journey of Unintended Consequences. Instead, we are going to bring back a fan favorite of when MSOs go bad. Thanks again for joining us today. And remember, if you like this episode, please subscribe, make sure to give us a five star rating and share with your friends.
Michael: You can also sign up for the ByrdAdatto newsletter by going to our website at byrdadatto.com.
Outro: [00:30:00] ByrdAdatto is providing this podcast as a public service. This podcast is for educational purposes only. This podcast does not constitute legal advice, nor does it establish an attorney-client relationship. Reference to any specific product or entity does not constitute an endorsement or recommendation by ByrdAdatto. The views expressed by guests are their own, and their appearance on the program does [00:31:00] not imply an endorsement of them or any entity they represent. Please consult with an attorney on your legal issues.
