In this episode, we spotlight medical spas with guest Dr. Jay Burns! Dr. Burns is a board certified plastic surgeon, and the sole director of Resurrect Skin M.D., a non-surgical department of his facial surgery practice, encompassing skincare, lasers, aesthetic technology, and a research center. We discuss how to mitigate risk when purchasing or leasing medical machines, how lasers play into aesthetic medicine, and the financial market of MedSpas.
Resurrect Skin M.D.is located in Texas and you can learn more by visiting https://www.resurrectskinmd.com/
Listen to the full episode using the player below, or by visiting one of the links below. Below is the episode’s transcript which has been edited for readability. If you have any questions or would like to learn more, email us at firstname.lastname@example.org.
Intro: [00:00:00] Welcome to Legal 123s with ByrdAdatto. Legal issues simplified through real client stories and real world experiences. Creating simplicity in 3, 2, 1.
Brad: Welcome back to another episode of the Legal 123s with ByrdAdatto. I’m your host Brad Adatto with my cohost Michael Byrd.
Michael: Thanks Brad. As a business and healthcare law firm, we represent clients in multiple sectors and multiple specialties, especially healthcare.
Brad: Yes, we do.
Michael: This season our theme is specialty spotlight, where each episode will visit about some of the nuances that can be found from a business and healthcare perspective in the various practice specialties.
Brad: Yeah. And Michael, today we’re going to have to be on our best behavior. We actually have a guest in studio today.
Michael: I’m excited. We have a longtime friend and client joining us today here in our Dallas studio. And to get started, I was trying to think of a local story.
Brad: Awesome, so we’re talking about the New Orleans Saints?
Michael: Yeah, Brad, you left New Orleans over 15 years ago. [00:01:00] They’re not local.
Brad: That’s not local? Okay. So then we’re not talking about at least the Cowboys, right?
Michael: Well, I know that you probably would protest and walk out.
Michael: But we could if you wanted to.
Michael: Okay. All right. Well, how about we’ll settle on talking about, we are both avid fans of the Mavericks. We go to the games together a lot. So I read a fascinating story about Mark Cuban that actually connects to healthcare.
Brad: Please tell me you’re not going to reenact like a Shark Tank pitch because if you are, can I be called Mr. Wonderful?
Michael: Um, that’s not going to happen.
Brad: No? Okay.
Michael: No. Um, but I read that the worst pitch ever on Shark Tank, according to Mark Cuban, was a healthcare related pitch made by two physicians.
Brad: Yeah, that’s shocking to me, you know, physicians are such good business people. I don’t know why they would have been bad at that. So I’m just a little curious because I actually love Shark Tank and I’ve seen some really nail biting pitches and [00:02:00] some terrible ones. So what happened here?
Michael: So this was a mobile health pitch called RoloDoc, which is meant to be a secure social media platform that allows physicians to upload and to display their medical records. The platform would act kind of as a communication tool between the doctors, the patients, and the other medical professionals.
Brad: All right. So as you can imagine, the healthcare lawyer me is just, I have all these red flags dinging in my head right now. I have a feeling that Mark Cuban probably did not hear the same things I heard from that same compliance perspective that I would see it at.
Michael: Yeah. In shocking news, Brad, most billionaires are not focused on healthcare compliance.
Brad: They’re missing out. Or, well, maybe I’m missing out.
Michael: Yeah. Well you have a healthcare compliance superpower, but you probably won’t be a billionaire. We’ll just leave it at that. So apparently this mobile technology in of itself was not what made this the worst pitch ever. The [00:03:00] physicians had done little actual work other than come up with this vision and the name.
Brad: Oh that’s important.
Michael: When they started getting questions, they couldn’t explain how they would get physicians to sign up for the platform. Or how they would market the technology. They could not explain how they would vet doctors using the platform or even how they were planning to make any money from this business. They just kept using buzz words like encryption and security and email and social media.
Brad: Well, those are great buzz words, but I’m still trying to figure out who do they actually pitch to this to? And what did they pitch to actually get cleared to actually go on the show? Sounds like they didn’t even have a business plan.
Michael: I think you’re right, Brad. I’m sure they must bring some epic fails on, on purpose just for fun to watch the flames go up. Apparently, as the pitch went on, it got worse and worse. They couldn’t explain [00:04:00] anything other than the name of their company and their concept.
Brad: Fair enough. All right. So what are we going to do? You said Mark Cuban earlier. So are we going to talk more about Mark Cuban?
Michael: I got sidetracked. Yes. Did you see the news back in January that Mark Cuban actually launched a generic drug co drug company called Cost Plus Drugs Company?
Brad: Yeah. Amazing because all of a sudden, every single healthcare newsletter I read all of a sudden had it on it. Then the Dallas morning news had it in there, and of course D magazine had a huge thing on it. So he got some great publicity for it.
Michael: Yeah. I mean the premise of the business is that Mark Cuban will buy generic drugs and sell them at cost plus 15%.
Brad: Yeah, so great publicity for him in 2022.
Michael: Yeah. I read an article it talked about a study that the Harvard medical school released and it concluded that had Medicare used Cost Plus Drugs.com it would’ve saved 3.6 billion with a B dollars in a single year. The [00:05:00] study concluded that Mark Cuban’s model when compared to kind of the Medicare craziness resulted in stunning price discrepancies.
Brad: Well, I guess this is not a political podcast, so I won’t go into whether or not the government will or will not use it. But it’s not surprising to find out there’s a cheaper way for them to be working with them.
Michael: So, yeah. Yeah. I know. Well, one, just one example is that Medicare paid $160 for a 90 day supply of acid reflux treatment and it could have gotten it for $17 from Cuban’s pharmacy.
Brad: I’m no mathematician, but that seems like an 800% markup or something like that for that Medicare patient. Um, but Michael, again, since we started with local and we were talking about local with Mark Cuban, maybe we should start bringing it back to the fact that we have a local guest here and really introduce our audience who’s watching it, who is this local guest sitting next to you? [00:06:00]
Michael: Well, we have a guest that actually of all the guests we’ve ever had on our show and anyone here at the firm, has known me longest. He was partners with my dad. And so he’s known me since my pre-law days.
Brad: And he still talks to you?
Michael: He’s seen the evolution, Brad. I’ve blossomed into a butterfly over the years. No, our longtime friend and client Jay Burns joins us. Jay is a plastic surgeon. He’s an international voice in skincare, lasers and aesthetic technology. He lectures to plastic surgeons around the country as well. He founded the medical spa Resurrect Skin MD. He has all the accolades, has been recognized by D magazine multiple years as a best doctor, super doctor, and the list goes on and on. Jay, welcome.
Dr. Burns: It’s great to be [00:07:00] here.
Brad: Well, Jay, we’re going to have to put you on the spot right away. So are you a Mark Cuban fan?
Dr. Burns: Uh, kind of in the middle. You know, if I could interject for a second, I noted something. You’re talking about these docs that came on the Shark Tank and I think it’s really kind of in line with what, I don’t know where we’re going with our talk today, I’ll go wherever you want me to. But one of the things that’s really impacted me is the doctors showed something that I see so commonly among physicians and, it’s a lack of execution. And to me, execution is everything. It’s, you know, a lot of people have visions and plans and honestly they are a dime a dozen. And I get caught up with that, but, you know, I worked with a company late in my career in Silicon Valley and these guys really taught me that execution is everything. And that that story was screaming of total lack of self-awareness and execution. And I [00:08:00] think you guys have helped me do that over the years as to execute a plan.
Michael: Well, that’s a great point. And Silicon Valley is a place where there’s lots of money thrown at ideas. But not much on the execution side. Or a lot of times.
Brad: Well, I think, you know, Jay, with your background we talked about when Michael was introducing you, one of your specialties that obviously as a plastic surgeon is really the MedSpa space. And just for our audience members who aren’t really familiar, they hear the term, or they don’t know what that means. Maybe you can just kind of give an idea of what is a medical spa.
Dr. Burns: Well it’s interesting. As a physician, I’m not a big fan of the term because everybody gets thrown into the same big quagmire. So on one hand I was doing, I call it an extension of my [00:09:00] practice, a non-surgical approach to aging. I think most surgeons, I don’t know if most surgeons, that’s not true, used to 10 or 15 or 20 years ago, surgeons just believed that if patients were silly enough not to come have surgery, then it was all on them and shame on them. But I think the thing that separated me as a unicorn here was that I realized that 90% of the patients are never, that are aesthetic patients are never going to have surgery. So how do we take care of those? And if they leave our office, there is a really great study that shows that there’s about a nine fold chance that they’re not coming back or they’re going to leave your practice. So I always wanted to do that. So for me, what some people call a MedSpa, I just call the nonsurgical department of my practice with lasers and technology and nonsurgical things, addressing the skin. I think that the evolution over my 30 years in practice has been, I was really looked down on [00:10:00] by the old guard for trying to service my patients in a way that that was a boutique kind of way with great service, and yet deliver medical care. And so I think that I have a real passion for that. And so in my practice, I try to avoid the word MedSpa at all, you know, as much as possible, realizing that’s the space I’m in. On the other hand, you can have the med spas in general would be, you know, financially they’re growing by leaps and bounds. And it’s a huge financial market. And so everybody’s trying to get into it. And depending on the state as you guys have taught me, and I can’t imagine what you have to keep up with all the different state regs, but there’s places where you don’t have to be a doctor to run a med spa. PAs and extenders can do that, I think. And you guys can talk about that more than I can, but I just think that the MedSpa, [00:11:00] I think a lot of people look at it as a place to make some money and they get, I get involved with a lot of legal cases. I’ve got one right now of somebody that, you know, in Florida, and just, you know, knock off equipment, totally unprepared. And it was just so on one extreme, you can see that, which is not an extension of any practice. It’s just trying to get some technology in there not knowing what they’re doing. And a couple of really significant issues came up to patients, unfortunately. So I don’t know that I answered it, but to me, the MedSpa space is more of addressing skin and aging and sun damage. But not taking it to the level where you would need a general anesthesia or anything like that. Just a little less but very important because you know, a lot of people will say like, for me, I was at a party one time and one of my dear friends who always wants to talk plastic surgery, we were dancing at a wedding and said, go over there I know that lady’s had a bad facelift and I danced over there, and not very well by the way, but [00:12:00] I danced over there as best as an old Garland boy could. And I went over there and it hit me because she had a great facelift. But what they had not done is addressed her skin. So her skin looked 70, her contour looked 50, and it looked awkward. But I thought, okay, great lesson. You know, and that’s what I’ve preached around the world is plastic surgeons, don’t forget the skin. In fact, you’d very rarely hear me say this or a plastic surgeon say this, but if I could do one thing to somebody’s skin for aging, I would address their skin and not the gravitational changes. Now, if you can do it all, it’s better. But I think the MedSpa addresses that part, that component of aging, that skin and a little bit of gravity with some of the technology we have, but it that’s never going to compare to surgery. So be careful about asking me a question I’m might ramble on.
Brad: Well, there’s two things I wanted the audience to hear more about is, you know, you were the one, [00:13:00] as you said, you were first to kind of really start thinking of other ways to look at your patients besides just to cut on them. But the second thing that whenever your name comes up like, oh, do you know Jay Burns, the laser guy? And it’s funny to hear from so many different people. So you were also one of the first ones out there using lasers. Maybe you can talk to the audience about how you use that technology in your practice.
Dr. Burns: Yeah I actually, again, it’s a crooked road that leads to the final answer sometimes. And so I actually did a fellowship in vascular anomalies and the excellent person that taught me didn’t believe in lasers. And I realized that was the future for treating kids. And then I like to say that I, for whatever reason, God’s wired me, that that not only do I know how to turn it on, I pop the lid on it and know what a resonator cavity is and I want to know how it works. And so in 95, when the aesthetic boom came, I like to say I was out in the water when everyone else is in the beach bar [00:14:00] when the wave came in. And so now I’ve used those lasers to, they’re really fantastic to they address, you know, you have different wavelengths and it can address the reds in the skin and certain wavelengths address the browns in the skin, and a lot of patients just believe, oh, I’m just going to be treated with a laser. And I mean, I’ve got millions of dollars’ worth of lasers, seven or eight different ones that’ll address browns and reds, and some will do pore size and tech and it’s just different targets, water, hemoglobin, melanin, those kind of things. So, it’s a very interesting field for some reason I really enjoy it. And it’s kind of what I’m doing mostly now as I get old and lost all my hair.
Michael: Well, what’s fascinating too, is I love it when we talk to people that have been doing this before they were called medical spas, it is actually a relatively new term. Or I call it new because I remember when it was not [00:15:00] called that. And it was just a part of the practice. Did you use nurses and other mid-levels back when you first started doing it as well?
Dr. Burns: From the start, you know, I had a different approach. But I tried to be honest with you. I tried to do it, but you know, there’s more money in it if you do it yourself because, you don’t have to pay anybody and whatever the issue is, if you’re a good surgeon and you’re busy, you know, I’d go to the end of the day, and I like to think I am, I’d go to the end of day at five o’clock and you’re done with surgery. And now you got a bunch of patients that you want to do this little fine needling, whatever. And I decided I was either going to get a mid-level to do that, or I was going to blow my brains out. I mean, the point is I was good at it. Right. I mean, I should be I’m a surgeon. But I was tired. And it was tedious and it didn’t bring me a whole lot of joy. So everybody has a personal preference and some people will play on the [00:16:00] point that, well, I’m a surgeon, I’m a dermatologist and I’m better than everybody else. Well, I would argue that a very well trained mid-level that that’s all they do their whole life that is excellent. Like my girls are, I just don’t have any problems with it. I supervise it. I stay close to it. If you pick the right people, this is like anything, you know, there are doctors that can screw things up, you know, as much as any nurse or extender could ever could and vice versa. So, I’ve always liked that approach and it’s helped me now as I’ve gotten older where I get a little more tired. And so now I still stay close. I supervise all my extenders and nurses and estheticians. And it’s a great business. And as a physician, I got to be careful. You know, business was kind of like a four letter word, profit, but as long as you [00:17:00] keep quality and safety, its okay to make money. It’s okay to have a profit. It’s okay to run it well. I’m sure you guys see it all the time. I’ve got a call right now to a guy that, he’s a great surgeon, does really well, he has tried to run a med spa and he wants my advice. And when I look at his practice, he didn’t know anything about it. He was just like probably those guys on Shark Tank and he bought a bunch of really knockoff stuff and it’s not working. And he spent a lot of money and he thinks the whole med spa business is crazy. And the point was that he just didn’t do his homework like he’d done for the other things. You cannot take this MedSpa industry and think it’s going to run itself. But if you do it’s a fantastic tool to enhance your practice while you’re in surgery to enhance your practice if you’re a dermatologist while you’re doing other things, like my daughter’s super successful at this, and she’s a dermatologist. [00:18:00] And it’s a great thing in the retirement ages to shift into.
Brad: You know, the fascinating thing is Michael and I have been blessed to speak to a lot of young plastic surgeons. And one of the first things they ask us is like, what should I be thinking about? And so I have a young plastic surgeon who’s just opening their first shop. I said, we’ll start thinking about opening up that non-invasive side as fast as possible and they kind of chuckle at me like you don’t understand how much money I make operating. And I said, no I completely understand that. But if you’re the only one operating, what happens when you go on vacation? So fast forward. I had this conversation with a gentleman years ago. I saw him at a conference in San Diego and he pulled me aside. He said, by the way, this is the first vacation I’ve been with my wife since we opened her practice. And this is the first time I’m not sweating because my team is doing all the noninvasive stuff I cleared. And so I’m actually making money while I’m here. And so as hearing you talk about the retirement side, it’s fascinating to hear people don’t realize you saw it early on that this is a way to keep my [00:19:00] patients especially since I hadn’t heard that 90% of those patients won’t have surgery.
Dr. Burns: Yeah. It’s a really well known stat. You know I’m involved with a national company now. And I get a chance to see and meet other med spa owners and whatever. There is a plastic surgeon here in the United States, and I didn’t even realize it was possible. I’m going to go visit him, but we’ve looked at it. It’s legit. I don’t know how he does it. It humbles me, but this guy makes $9 million by himself in surgery. It’s almost impossible. He’s a really nice guy. You’d think you’d be narcissistic and driven and not have a family, but he does. And you know how much he makes in his med spa, another 9 million. It’s a single guy that makes 18 million. Now everybody can do that, but your point is okay, so you rest on 9 million or you have 18 million. It’s just your call.
Michael: It’s incredible. Well, I noticed [00:20:00] kind of pivoting a little bit, but listening to you talk, and I know you have a ton of technology. And one of the things I’ve seen is mistakes that people make when they start their non-invasive practice is they have kind of the shiny object syndrome and they buy every new toy they see, but they don’t necessarily factor in are they going to be able to use it in a way that it’ll end up being beneficial? How have you kind of dealt with that? And what observations do you have about how you pick the technologies that you use?
Dr. Burns: Yeah, well it’s evolved and it’s still evolving. So I will tell you that I’m a little bit different than most in the fact that I get to, because I’m on the podium because I do research on these because I can help them bring it to market. I’ve been very fortunate to be on most of the significant advisory boards over the years. So I get the toys early. [00:21:00] And I get to actually play with them and see what works. And I would tell you that with full disclosure, the mistakes that I’ve made financially in my life are when I didn’t seek counsel, I wanted it to work and I said, I’m not going to ask Brad or Mike, because they may tell me not to do it. And I did it and because it just seemed great. And I think that that’s what doctors do. And I think that’s what a lot of people do across the board. And I would just tell people if they would just, you know, I think most KOLs that I know of key opinion leaders and industry leaders that I’ve been fortunate to be myself. I can’t remember not returning a phone call to a colleague that asked me for my advice and they simply just don’t go do their homework. And now that I’ve been involved with this new company, we’ve got people that I really admire and they bring in the business side of it. You [00:22:00] know, these are McKenzie guys, Deloitte guys, and they’ve been super successful at running med spas. So I had again, I had a technology that I know works and I ran it past them this week. You know what they did, they did a complete cost analysis of profit margins, how will it impact and how will it impact the other things that I’m doing. And so you can take it to that kind of level of expertise. And I would just tell you that a little bit of money spent on consultation on legal opinions and things like that will pay off in spades for you, not so that you won’t have what we call, you know, heavy paper weights in the corner that really don’t work.
Michael: Or coat racks.
Dr. Burns: Yeah. Exactly, coat racks. And so yeah, they’re big enough. They’re not paper weights. I don’t want you to think that I only look at profit margin. I’m just saying, hey, look, you know, you’ve got a business here. You got to pay your employees. You’ve [00:23:00] got to do 401ks. You’ve got to figure out exactly. Like a lot of people don’t realize that injectables, for example, which everybody thinks is a big, great, well, that’s, that’s not your big money market in a MedSpa. You know, it’s a lot of overhead that’s kind of, but it keeps people in the door, it does make a little profit. Whereas there’s certain procedures that really are your best business decisions. Now I would lose money if I could help people and make a smaller margin, don’t get me wrong. But when you’re considering two or three different options, and they’re all equal with regard to results and safety, those are things are just fine to talk about because it’s not like you’re greedy. You want to stay in business so you can buy better equipment down the road. And ultimately I really try to keep the patient in mind is the priority. Great results and done safely will give you [00:24:00] satisfaction and you’ll make a little money in the process.
Brad: And I think what’s important that you just said that I think a lot of people do make mistakes, whether or not they’re the physicians that are doing it, or are MedSpas. They see that shiny object that Michael’s referencing, they go out and buy a very expensive laser. And then they find out that none of their patients want that particular procedure. And so hearing that someone can do that analysis as it relates to, hey, this is how it’s going to be used. This is your cost. And then as you said, and if you have this machine, it might pull other patients away from this other product line that you’re selling. It’s so fascinating to hear that you have that great business that you can reach out to and utilize.
Dr. Burns: Well, I think that what’s happened is, is that I looked at it early. Back from 95 when I started doing this and I was a lot like that surgeon, you said, hey, you know, I’m doing so well in my surgery business and so I just let it run itself. I didn’t put any marketing into it [00:25:00] anything. It was just kind of an aside. And I made a little bit of extra money and it was great passive income. But as I’ve learned over the years, if you make that a business and take care of it like you do your surgical practice, you know, my aha moment was I was at The Aesthetic Meeting in New York a few years ago. And I’m sure you were there. I know you were there and I was on the hot topics panel and somebody asked me, well, how many people up here have hit that magic number? And I didn’t know there was a magic number. I don’t think there is where you’re making as much in your med spa as you are your surgical practice. So I raised my hand and there was like one other guy on the panel that raised his hand and about three people in the audience of 400. And I found that a little shocking. So they came back and asked me a question. Well, how much is it? What’s the percentage? And I said, you know, I don’t know. So I went home and I looked at it [00:26:00] and when I looked at it, I was making about 80% on the MedSpa and I was a pretty busy surgeon. And I went home to my wife and I said, babe, I think I’m done. I think I’m going to start landing my plane, which I’ve done ever since. And I’ve had a few little hurdles, but on the other hand, right now, I’ve limited my practice to really laser resurfacing, which I’m known for and facelifts and a certain type of facelifts. And I’m going to wind that down over the next 12 months, hopefully. And I’ve expanded my MedSpa. I’ve got involved with the national organization. It’s given me a ton of opportunities. And I think your advice, Brad, that you gave that surgeon open this up as soon as possible, keep your patients not only for financially, sell your patients sunscreens and do facelifts and everything in between so they will not leave. And provide a full service for them as quickly as you can. So you build that loyal clientele. That’ll just make your [00:27:00] life a whole lot easier.
Michael: I just had a flashback to New York because we spoke together and we had technology issues.
Brad: We did, we did. I was thinking the exact same thing, Michael. I forgot that part, but yeah, you’re right. Exactly. Jay came in and saved the day.
Michael: He did. Well, I can’t believe it. We’ve already used up our time today. And we’re so grateful Jay that you were able to join us and it was extremely insightful. What we’ll do next is we’ll go into commercial and on the other side, we’ll have a couple of legal wrap ups.
Dr. Burns: Thank you very much. Thanks for having me. It’s been fun, you guys are great!
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Brad: Welcome back to Legal 123s with ByrdAdatto. I’m your host Brad Adatto and I’m still here with my co-host Michael Byrd. Now, Michael, this season’s theme is especially spotlight. We had our good friend and client Jay Burns here, or AKA the laser doctor. He had a lot of great observations just in general about running a MedSpa, running a successful plastic surgery practice. So it’s really awesome to hear his thoughts, but couple legal takeaways that hopefully our audience kind of heard a little bit about was, you know, number one is when you go out and you buy one of these, he said paper weights. I mean, these machines are very large, so you call it a coat rack, but large and expensive. And as Jay said, you know in a good practice, there may be millions of dollars’ worth of machines in there. And when you go out and buy these, you need to understand what are you [00:29:00] entering into from a contract perspective. And so is this a contract where you’re paying the equipment over time? Is there a note involved with it? Are you paying in cash up front? So how does that affect your cash flow? But then as you look at that contract understand that a lot of times, most of these contracts say, hey, once you buy it, you own it forever. You can’t give it, you can’t sell it back to us. We’re not going to take it back from you. And then even more restrictions, Michael, a lot of times these contracts are, hey, we’ll come set it up and you can’t move this equipment. If you move this equipment that voids the warranty. So you can’t just move it down to another hallway or another room, or you can’t freely transfer this equipment to another doctor or another practice without our approval. And we got to come back and you got to pay us to reset the scale of this thing. So understand, there are a lot of implications in those contracts. So when you are going to buy one, make sure even if you can’t change it, understand, you know, eyes wide open, have someone review it. So that you understand [00:30:00] the risk associated with that particular contract. But, you know, Jay brought up another great point, Michael, which was the types of machines you’re buying. What are you bringing in there?
Michael: Yeah. And before I go there, I’ll just add to your comment, Brad, its super common to lease these machines. And they’re equally difficult to get out of. You’ve signed, you’re kind of on the dotted line for long term lease. So you have the same issues and then Jay also mentioned, as you said, kind of some of the bad players out there using off market machines, and it’s a common temptation because they can cost, you know, sometimes half or less as much as a on market deal. And there’s some risks that go with that kind of in the adage of you get what you pay for. Well just add that element of risk to it and understand that there’s a ton of risk. First if you get something kind of in the, you know, in the black market, so to speak that, [00:31:00] and it’s not FDA certified, there’s all sorts of risk and issues that go from a compliance perspective there. But secondly, you don’t know where that machine’s been, if it works, and what it’s going to do to a patient when you start using it. And so your risk of hurting a patient goes up significantly. And guess what? The courts or the medical boards, they actually take into account if you’re using some off market device on a patient and they get hurt from it. And so you can bet that the medical board is going to come down extra hard or the nursing board, whatever board you’re in front of and that the plaintiff’s lawyers are going to have a field day when they’re pursuing their malpractice actions.
Brad: Yeah. Because if you’re falling outside the standard care, no matter what you’re using the wrong type of machine or one that doesn’t really meet the FDA approval. You’re definitely exposing yourself. But Michael, believe it or not, that [00:32:00] is all the time we have today. Guess what audience members? We have one more episode coming up and its next week. So next Wednesday we’ll have a specialty spotlight on the DSO, the dental support organization model with Justin Puckett.
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