Join us in this episode with Louisiana State Representative Aimee Adatto Freeman, a seasoned leader in both politics and business. We discuss the complexities of leadership and the similarities between her role in the State Legislature and challenges faced by businesses. Discover valuable insights into effective leadership and the importance of listening when navigating diverse viewpoints.
Listen to the full episode using the player below, or by visiting one of the links below. If you have any questions or would like to learn more, email us at info@byrdadatto.com.
Transcript
*The below transcript has been edited for readability.
Intro: [00:00:00m] Welcome to Legal 123s with ByrdAdatto. Legal issues simplified through real client stories and real-world experiences, creating simplicity in 3, 2, 1.
Brad: Welcome back to Legal 123s with ByrdAdatto. I’m your host, Brad Adatto, with my co-host, Michael Byrd.
Michael: As a business and health care law firm, we represent clients in multiple business sectors, especially health care. This season, we are finding common ground for our audience regardless of your background, our theme is Leadership, where each episode we will talk about leadership from different perspectives.
Brad: All right, Michael, I’m going to throw something big at you here. What if I told you over the last 40 years, an invisible hand has been guiding the way you write, work, and communicate?
Michael: Well, first, Brad, based on the way you speak, I doubt any hidden hand has helped guide you on how to speak because you speak your own language that we call Brad, and if it did, it should be fired. [00:01:00m] But I am curious, tell me what in the world you’re talking about with this invisible hand business.
Brad: Well, and this influence has been persuasive in the sense that it’s has impacted. It had been very subtle. The way it’s done it, and you might have never noticed this invisible hand is Microsoft Word.
Michael: Okay, you’ve peaked my curiosity, Brad, Microsoft Word?
Brad: Yes, Microsoft Word. I know you like context, so here is why. In 1993, Microsoft Word was basically launched on a different name for Dos.
Michael: Okay, Brad, well, I guarantee you at least half our audience has no idea what Dos means because they’re not dinosaurs like you and I.
Brad: I guess that is the first vocabulary word of the day. Before there was Windows audience members, there is something called the Disc Operating Systems, AKA Dos, and it was an operating system that ran on your disc drive.
Michael: Well, Brad, I know you liked the eighties, but I think we [00:02:00m] need to speed the context up a little bit if we’re camping out on Dos.
Brad: Yes. In the 1980s, there was more than 300 word processing programs across multiple different platforms. However, by 1994, Microsoft’s basically said they claimed about 90% of the shares of the word processing market. And it became obviously one of the successful well-known software products in history actually, which according to this article I read on the BBC; there’s 1.4 billion Windows devices that have word on it, and 90% of those devices use the Word software.
Michael: I feel like I can personally relate to everything you just shared, because I feel like the legal industry was the last to adopt Word. And I mean, I feel like when – even when we started working together, we were both still sometimes having to use Word Perfect, which was the legal industry’s software of choice.
Brad: It was, and [00:03:00m] I remember using the Word Perfect and not converting well the word and clients getting very confused on documents. And on top of that word, spellchecker and grammar features became a very subtle but necessary use of our language.
Michael: Yeah. And I’m sure that spellcheck was a lifesaver for you.
Brad: It’s my best friend. Yeah, for sure. And because of how trivial it seems, and the software was started correcting things and became very automated. And you might think unintentionally it might say, well, it might change your voice, your unique voice and unique expressions because it sort automatically correcting your spelling and suggesting you write differently. And suggestions aren’t really based on your personal writing style or even your tone, it’s just this is what the rule says.
Michael: Okay. Well, I do know I broke a lot of rules over the years because I feel like I’m getting offered grammar corrections very frequently, but I agree. I mean, you have to balance grammar versus [00:04:00m] personality when it starts to come to tone.
Brad: Absolutely. It’s a tricky balance. And so, Noel Wolf, a linguist.
Michael: That sounds like a Brad word, and so we’ll go with it.
Brad: Expert in the language learning platform of Babel, provided an example of auto correctness. He noted in Harper Lee, if she had used words write, Kill a Mockingbird, the software would clarify certain words and have changed it. And so one of her famous lines, I never loved to read, one does not love breathing. Two, I never love to read, breathing is necessary.
Michael: Isn’t breathing is necessary one of your personal core values?
Brad: Yes. I believe breathing is a core value for all humans, but this example illustrates the effects of using such a tool that it can have these subtle shifts that could potentially have far reaching impact on creative writing.
Michael: Okay. Okay. So what does word taking over your writing skills have to [00:05:00m] do with today’s guest?
Brad: Well, I’m not sure if word has taken over today’s guest’s creative skills, but I knew that today’s guest is an example of how a leader can help guide a community and even a state. And maybe we can bring her on. And I also understand that her brother is dashing good looking.
Michael: Well, I don’t know about that, but we can probably all agree that our guest’s brother has self-confidence that knows no bounds. And if you haven’t, audience have not guessed, today’s guest is Brad’s sister, Louisiana House State representative, Aimee Adatto-Freeman. So Aimee, a little bit of her bio before we bring her on. She graduated from UVA, which I think is like the non-black sheep school that the Adattos go to. And then she has an MBA from Tulane. She’s the founder of Aimee Freeman Consulting. She is a representative of District 98 in New Orleans, Louisiana since 2020, and was recently [00:06:00m] reelected unopposed. And final footnote and sympathy and empathy is that she is Brad’s older sister. Aimee, welcome.
Aimee: Well, thank you. Hey, and by the way, I’m not his older sister. He’s older than me.
Brad: Me. Oh, I forgot. She’s just 30, is that right now?
Aimee: Exactly, exactly. There was a de-aging process that comes on even though I was actually like by calendar, I was born before Brad, but yet, as time went on, he had to be the older brother.
Michael: It’s interesting. So he’s the oldest person in the room, is what I’m hearing.
Aimee: Yes. Thank you for figuring that out, Michael.
Michael: I love that.
Brad: And for those audience members that don’t know, not only did Aimee graduate from Tulane, she also is an adjunct professor there. And as such, you get to teach these Tulane business schools in communications and how to give speeches. And I guess a first question for you, Aimee, have you seen that word software really crushing the creativity [00:07:00m] of the communication skills of your students?
Aimee: The word software? Something original. The original Word Perfect?
Brad: Or just Word?
Aimee: Are we talking about Word? I think sometimes they like to take the shortcuts, and with business communications I teach a leadership class as well at Tulane, but with business communications, a lot of what we do is trying to get the point across quickly. So they use it for grammar check, like Michael says, but they also sometimes rely on it. And we’re getting more into AI and all that, and I’m doing a talk on AI actually on Saturday, and I’m having another, so there is a lot more going on besides word. I think we need to worry more about AI in students.
Michael: Fair. Alright, well, let’s get started. And so this is a 50 point question. I want you point by point to tell me everything about Brad that I don’t know and that would be really embarrassing. Well, we’ll do a different episode.
Brad: We could do it, yes.
Aimee: We’ll definitely do that ever some bourbon.
Michael: [00:08:00m] Okay. I like it. I like where you’re going with this. Okay, well then, let’s talk about something much more important, which is your role as a state representative. Talk to us about kind of that; you started serving in 2020 and just love to hear about that role.
Aimee: Sure. I was elected in 2020. In Louisiana we have term limits, so I was an open seat. So I ran against six other competitors, and we also have what is known as a jungle primary. We do not have closed primary for Democrats or Republicans. I happened to run against six other Democrats because the majority of this district is Democrats. But yeah, I had to win a runoff and I came in first in the runoff and then I had to also win a primary. And it was an interesting competitive spirit. And Brad knows I was a competitive athlete cross country state championship team and track team. And so, went back to my leadership days of being [00:09:00m] head of a track team, and hyper-focused on the win. So thankfully the district wanted to elect me. And then because of term limits, I guess it’s a gift. Sometimes people think you’re doing a good job and no one runs against you. But it also probably is because legislators in Louisiana get paid $16,800 a year, so it’s a part-time gig.
Brad: Well, you got that extra 800, so don’t spend it all in one place.
Aimee: Yeah. I’m very honored to serve the district. For those who know New Orleans, it’s Uptown Carrollton, Tulane University, Loyola University, Audubon Park, where the zoo is, is in the district. And so, it’s a really well educated and active district. So everything from my Bernie Sanders democrats to my Trump supporters, I have everything in this district. So while it is majority Democrat, there are a lot of independents and I call them my George Bush, Republicans, [00:10:00m] that live in this district mostly.
Brad: Yeah, and I can just say and I will brag on her for a second that it was a long, hard fight and I’m super proud of her for winning. I remember my mom turning to me the day she was sworn in, she said, “Can you believe that my daughter’s a state rep?” So it was a very proud moment in the Adatto-Freeman household.
Michael: That’s amazing. What have you learned in the last couple of years kind of serving in this capacity as a state representative?
Aimee: Well, the good news is because I’ve run my own business for a long time and been involved in – I work with every stage of a business from an early stage startup to HSBC bank, and so I help my business owners and senior managers make decisions about how they’re going to grow their company strategically. And we do that in the context of financials and really deep digging into what’s best for the company. But those skills were very easily transferrable to the state legislature because you’re [00:11:00m] constantly in a negotiation, you’re constantly having to listen. You’re listening to your constituents, you’re listening to the person testifying in front of you. You’re negotiating with your friend who you want to vote for the pink tax exemption, but he doesn’t really care about that so much, but what he really wants is some money for the roads in Houma.
And so, yeah, I’ll sign off on your thing if you sign off on my thing, so you’re in multi-level negotiations constantly. I know you guys are constantly negotiating on behalf of your clients. What I’m doing when I’m in dealing with these bills is I’m negotiating at multiple levels at the same time, because I have the things I’m carrying, the things my constituents care about, one way or the other, they have a viewpoint. And then I have to work with each – there’s 105 members of the house and there are 39 members of the Senate, so I have to work within the context of all of that. And then of course, you have to make the governor happy, happy because you want the governor to sign your bills, because if not, they do not become law. There is so many levels of negotiation. [00:12:00m] I’ve found that being part of – my career prepared me for where I am now as a part-time state legislator. I always say part-time because it’s funny. It’s not really part-time.
Brad: Yes, I can vouch for that. Well, Aimee, as this season we’re really focused on understanding leadership. As a state representative and a leader of a district, we’d love you to share some of your thoughts on leadership, but we kind of want to take a step back and find out what was your first leadership position? I know you talked about being on the track team and across country, but I’m sure you had other leadership positions before that.
Aimee: Yeah, I mean, I would say that that sports were a big part of my first leadership position, so it’s easy for me to go back to that because I don’t think about that every day. But when you think about what you are, when you’re a competitive runner, you know, long distance runners was my specialty. And it’s really important that you work with each member of your team, but your individual scores are how you went to meet, right? [00:13:00m] For those who know cross country, it’s the lowest score that wins. So you want to have your runners come in at the top 10, the top 15, the top 20 to be able to beat the other teams. So I would say that that was a big part of the early training of my leadership. I also had a coach who used to yell at me and say very inappropriate things that in today’s landscape, children would not allow him to say. But he’s still a good friend.
In the eighties, you could yell at your all women cross country team and say inappropriate things and everyone would just get back to work and not be worried about it. I’ll say that was a huge part of it. I mean, and also being part of a family full of leaders. I mean, our grandfather, Brad probably has spoken about our grandfather before not on this podcast, was a first generation American World War II vet who grew up in Seattle and landed here in Louisiana and married our grandmother who was fourth, fifth generation New Orleanian, so he wasn’t going anywhere. And we learned a lot about leadership from him and from [00:14:00m] our own parents because our parents were intricately involved in leading things like things for the neighborhood association, starting the garden district patrol. Our dad was involved with the LSU Medical Society, a fundraising opportunity for his undergraduate University of Virginia. So, a lot of our leadership knowledge came from observation in our family, I would say.
Michael: There’s definitely some.
Aimee: And even our grandmother, our grandmother we’re like, helped write a cookbook for New Orleans Museum of Art.
Michael: There’s definitely some Adatto DNA leadership traits, but it does make me wonder in a house full of leaders, does sister boss brother or brother boss sister, how did that work in the younger years?
Aimee: Well, there’s a lot going both ways there, Michael, and I do recall when he tried to beat me in a race, Crescent City Classic race. And I pulled on his shirt because I didn’t want him to beat me. Probably I was in eighth [00:15:00m] grade and he was in fifth grade. Again, he grew older than me as time passed, but at that point I was a few grades ahead of him. And I remember getting in a heck of a lot of trouble with the leaders of our household, because I was not supposed to be pulling in my brother’s shirt. He still beat me in that race.
Brad: Only in that one. Yeah, sure. That’s funny.
Michael: Well, yeah.
Aimee: Do you remember that?
Brad: Yes. And the best part, audience members is, when we were finishing the race, because that was the last mile and I was trying to get a really good time. And again, we’re not competitive all in our family, and Aimee was behind me and wanted me to slow down and I didn’t want to. And so, she reached forward and grabbed my shirt and started pulling on it. And at near the end of the race though, or where the photographers are that take pictures, and there’s a picture of Aimee reaching. Now, you can’t tell that she grabbed my shirt and tried to slow me down, but that was the part of all pictures to have, was Aimee and I of her trying to slow me down. [00:16:00m]
Aimee: It was partially caught on camera.
Brad: Partially caught. That’s right.
Michael: That’s amazing. Well, you talked Aimee about the influence of family on leadership; professionally, as you became a professional, did you have any mentors or people that kind of outside of family that have influenced your leadership development?
Aimee: Yeah, absolutely. And I know – the pre-questionnaire you all sent just to think about – sometimes some of the worst people you work for in leadership end up becoming a goal for you how to become a better leader. And so, I had the opportunity of working at the Department of Commerce in my first job right out of college. And I had a leader who was kind of like a leader by fear. And then of course, the woman who worked right underneath him was very easy to come to and talk to about how you’re making decisions. And I will say, having him as the head of my area kind of taught me lessons [00:17:00m] and how not to behave with the team. And I still look back to that. Whereas the other woman who I worked for who was kind of his office manager day-to-day in the office, she understood that people needed to be treated at a certain level of respect, no matter whether they were the first person in the door or the last person in the door. So I would say early in my career, I started to see examples of leadership.
And then the second job I had, I worked for a lobbying firm up on Capitol Hill, Doug Coe and Associates still exists today and had two great leaders who really taught me the importance of communication and being able to work with everybody from the senators that we would host breakfast for, to the cleaning people who would come in and set up our breakfast meetings. And so, knowing that you have specific, and I can’t think of a specific person, but I kind of, I’ve always been good at observing what’s happening around me. And that still happens today. [00:18:00m] when I look at leaders who inspire me, some that I’ve never met, like Václav Havel, who’s the former president of the Czech Republic. He’s somebody I admire greatly, and learned about him when the Czech Republic was reforming back when communism was falling.
Michael: Amazing. Yeah, I’m thinking about too, you’re sharing your kind of the learn what not to do experience. Did you find kind of, especially your younger years when you were being led or you had people you were working for that there was certain traits that you responded better to than others? So I hear the first guy was kind of a commander type, and that didn’t resonate with you. What were kind of some of the traits that you responded to in a good leader?
Aimee: Well, I think a good leader will build a team around them. When I have people who work for me, I want to have them participate in the full process. [00:19:00m] Obviously I’m not a technology guru, but I know that I need my printer to work, right? So I want that set up and I want the work. Well, the same things goes with my leaders. If I’m leading somebody, I want to give them skills that when they leave me, they will be well suited. And in fact, as a state legislator, you get a small budget for an assistant. And I’ve successfully launched two of my assistants into, one’s an advocacy role for housing that’s local to Louisiana. And another one’s up in DC now working for a congressman from New York. So what I would say is, the leaders who showed me how I could be a leader and gave me the time to listen, the time to guide, I mean, it doesn’t mean they were always, you know, sometimes it was like, just go get this thing done, because you still have to do your job. But what I’ll say is that those kind of leaders taught me that giving people confidence to do what they do well will help them be successful [00:20:00m] in life. And that to me, a real leader, is somebody who looks at the full picture and respects somebody’s family and life as a full picture.
Brad: Yeah. And I’m thinking about this, obviously I don’t know why I hadn’t reflect, but thinking back to your first days out of college working in the government, at the Commerce department, having your MBA and now being back actually in the government again; even though you’re still younger than me, a little bit older than you were out of college. I can say that, right? You’re older than when you were in college. Aimee, as that leader, and we’ve established your skills here, what are some of the areas of concern that other people should be mindful of that they often miss? And this could be coming from as a state representative or with your clientele that you work with or just in general when you’re working with your students, what are areas you think people should be concerned about?
Aimee: Well, I do think as [00:21:00m] we know, we’re living in a more divided world where people are on far ends. And what’s happening is the people, and you know, this is politically speaking, but it’s also happening inside of companies that I work for where two partners of a business are vastly different thinking which way the company should go. But they’re equal owners and they want the company to grow, but they are fighting about how to do it. I mean, I’ll say two brothers whose dad started the company, that kind of thing, right? And so I think it’s said over and over, but it’s that listening piece. If you ask me, I think most people live in the middle, but when they get into their own, like, no, it’s my way, it’s my way, it’s my way, they stand on the right or they stand on the left, whatever that fight is, it doesn’t have to even be a political fight because they just want their way. So that listening piece, I work a lot on that for myself. It’s sometimes easier to be in that vacuum and you say, okay, well I think we should open three more [00:22:00m] branches of this business in Texas. because that’s how we’re going to grow. And then the other brother says, but no like, we’re losing clients right here in Louisiana, why would we start over here? And they’re both right in their own lane, but they’re not listening to each other. And so for me, that’s a big part of what I do. And it’s not easy. Like, it’s very easy to say to listen. Because you can listen without hearing, right? You could just be like, oh, you know, go on. You can be – but to me, that’s a big factor of leadership is listening to those around, and then leading anyway. Like, even if you still disagree, it’s like, well, too bad, this is the decision, we’re going to move on from this.
Michael: I’m curious too, I’m thinking about as you were talking, as I was listening, Aimee, I noticed that…
Brad: Good job, Michael.
Michael: I was thinking about the government and the role in the legislature, and then your two brothers example, [00:23:00m] and both of those, it occurs to me that, you used the word negotiations earlier, but there are conversations where listening’s important, but there are also scenarios where in the legislature, there’s going to be people that are passionate about their issue or with a family, there’s going to be raised emotions. What’s your view on how, when emotions get involved from a leadership perspective and how emotions can impact either how you lead?
Aimee: Well, I think in today’s world where we always hear people talk about vulnerability and letting you feel your feelings, and so we’re in a definitely more – we discussed our mental state of things and our mental health a lot more than we did 20 years ago. So to me, especially when you’re in a state representative position, I might vastly disagree with the person who’s testifying in front of me in committee, in an education bill who wants to take vaccine clinics out of school. Like for me, [00:24:00m] in my district, that’s like, what? What are you doing? Like, some of these kids don’t even go to the doctor. So like, I have a very different viewpoint than them. I could battle with them incessantly and go back and forth like anti-vax, vax, anti-vax, vax or I can just listen, which I did, because it’s their right to come in there and tell me what they need to say in their viewpoint.
And then I can ask one question, like, don’t we already have a law that says doctors can’t practice – that you have to have a license to practice medicine? Because they’re trying to say teachers are getting vaccines, but they’re not. I’m sorry if I didn’t explain that right. I think I probably need a pause, but what I’m really trying to say is that when you’re trying to negotiate and listen, part of the process, at least on the legislative side, is hearing that viewpoint that your district doesn’t agree with. Because without hearing that, you haven’t heard the whole story, and then you have to go back. So hopefully, I don’t know if…I went off on a weird tangent.
Brad: I think makes perfect sense. [00:25:00m] I think it’s all – I mean, it’s the struggle that you can have, and especially, and I’ll say it this way, when someone’s saying something that you disagree with, and it’s can be emotional, but to keep the them as a good leader, keeping the emotion out of that triggering of it, and then being able to ask a calculated question as to, look, I hear your perspective, however, this is my perspective, and hopefully they’re able to listen too. That’s a good leadership, although I’m sure in politics and in life, the person yelling loud sometimes get the camera on them, that doesn’t mean they’re actually going to be resolving what you’re trying to resolve.
Aimee: That’s right. And I mean, I will say, like, one of my persons that I’ve come very close to up in Baton Rouge is a woman who’s president Pro Tem of the Senate, and she represents an area north of New Orleans across the lake. And wonderful woman, we worked very well together on the Title IX Reformation that needed to happen because there were athletes abusing other athletes and not being reported, [00:26:00m] so we needed to fix that law. But then we had some other things where she and I were on the opposite viewpoints on. But what I would do is, when she’d come to the committee, and I would say, now, Beth my district really doesn’t like this bill, so I’m going to vote against it. I’m going to speak against it. But I’d tell her ahead of time. I didn’t like – and that’s like more because I know her, but even when it was somebody like a minister from Monroe, which is Monroe is so different than New Orleans, he thinks New Orleans is sin-filled and he doesn’t like me, so whatever I say he doesn’t like, but I still try to be respectful of the person sitting in the chair testifying.
Brad: Right. That’s amazing.
Michael: And believe it or not, Aimee, we have already hit our time. It’s flown by. And so, we will wrap up this episode. We’ll have the bourbon filled Brad story time on a different episode. [00:27:00m] Thank you very much for joining us today. What we’ll do next is go into commercial and on the other side, Brad and I’ll do a quick little legal wrap up. Thank you.
Aimee: Thank you for having me.
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Brad: Welcome back to Legal 123s with ByrdAdatto. I’m your host, Brad Adatto, with my co-host, Michael Byrd. Now Michael, this season, our theme is Leadership and we had an amazing leader. And I’m not just saying that just because she’s my sister who [00:28:00m] apparently is younger than me now, but I was really happy to have Aimee on, and she brought up a lot of really interesting aspects about being a leader, and more importantly, what it’s like to be in a state, in any state as a legislator about how you have to negotiate. And there’s a lot of negotiation back and forth, and a lot of give and take. And then eventually someone will eventually sign that. So maybe the passion of what you had, and the bill changes and it changes and it changes, by the time the governor signs it and becomes a law, it may have been watered down a lot, but it’s law now, Michael, what are you supposed to do with that?
Michael: Yeah. And what is interesting is what actually happens is so different than how all of us naturally would think. We think, okay, the law is passed now that we have clarity, and it is far from that. Because what was originally intended usually has been, as you mentioned, watered down and so there’s some question like, how is this going to work now? Or it may be have been so broadly written that there is a lack of [00:29:00m] clarity of, well, if you really start thinking about it, how’s this going to work? So what happens when a law is passed is, how it’s going to be enforced and interpreted is dealt with. Sometimes it takes years for that clarity to come in. And so, we see this all the time when a new law gets passed and people either get upset or get excited because of how they feel about it. And oftentimes, you will be in even more of a gray zone for a decent amount of time.
Brad: Yeah. And I’ll add one thing. I mean, a lot of times, and I’ll use nurse practitioner example, these states that are passing these laws where a nurse practitioner has autonomy, they’re like, oh, so I can, I can start doing it now. We’re like, no, we have to wait for the nursing board to release that information about how they’re going to force it. And sometimes t hat can take two or two and a half years.
Michael: Yeah. No, absolutely. Great point.
Brad: Any other thoughts? Any takeaway?
Michael: No. We’re good.
Brad: All right. So did Word change any of your final thoughts?
Michael: Word did not. You know, [00:30:00m] I am glad to find out that you are the oldest person in the room now because I’m piggybacking off Aimee, and now you’re older than both of us.
Brad: All right, Michael, well, before we exit today’s show, I think we have one last shout out for our friends. But for those who know, our awesome good friend who sits across from us every day, our podcast Boss Riley, who’s been with us for the last 13 seasons and sadly is leaving us to go do a new venture.
Michael: We are sending her off and we are so at one time really happy for Riley and also sad to see her go, but I thought of Riley when Aimee was talking about sending off some of her people that she’s led, and so we’re very proud of you, Riley, and look forward to seeing what happens next in your new industry.
Brad: Absolutely. All right, well, audience members, do not panic, although Riley won’t be here with us next week, we will be back next Wednesday with a veteran and infantry officer of the Marine Corps. [00:31:00m] Todd Boeing will be joining us to continue to learn about leadership. Thanks again for joining us today.
And remember, if you like this episode, please subscribe, make sure to give us a five star rating and share with your friends.
Michael: You can also sign up for the ByrdAdatto newsletter by going to our website at byrdadatto.com.
Outer: ByrdAdatto is providing this podcast as a public service. This podcast is for educational purposes only. This podcast does not constitute legal advice, nor does it establish an attorney-client relationship. Reference to any specific product or entity does not constitute an endorsement or recommendation by ByrdAdatto. The views expressed by guests are their own, and their appearance on the program does not imply an endorsement of them or any entity they represent. Please consult with an attorney on your legal issues.
