In this episode, we share the story of a successful ENT (ear, nose, and throat) doctor who decided to sell his practice to his younger associate. We walk through the financial aspects of selling a medical practice, including valuation approaches. Tune in for strategies to overcome common legal hurdles during a sale and advise on approaching sensitive topics surrounding transitions.
Listen to the full episode using the player below, or by visiting one of the links below. If you have any questions or would like to learn more, email us at firstname.lastname@example.org.
Intro: [00:00:00] Welcome to Legal 123s with ByrdAdatto. Legal issues simplified through real client stories and real world experiences, creating simplicity in 3, 2, 1.
Brad: Welcome back to another episode, the Legal 123s with ByrdAdatto. I’m your host Brad Adatto with my co-host Michael Byrd.
Michael: Thanks Brad. As a business and healthcare law firm, we meet a lot of interesting people and learn their amazing stories. This season’s theme is hard conversations. We’ll take real client stories, of course we’ll scrub their names, and build them around confronting and having hard conversations. They don’t have all, they don’t all have great outcomes, Brad, but there are a lot of teachable moments.
Brad: Yeah and, you know, teachable moments cause as most of the audience members know, Michael, you’re so much older than me. I think maybe, you probably remember attending the 1936 Olympics in Berlin.
Michael: I don’t remember Brad, but in fairness, people [00:01:00] my age start losing their memory a little bit.
Brad: Yeah. I’m Brad, by the way. Well, for those who don’t remember, the 1936 Olympics was a moment in history where Germany was hosting the Olympics in Berlin. There’s a guy named Adolf Hitler who saw the 1936 games as an opportunity to promote his government and the ideas of racial supremacy or the Germans, that being and the games were the first ever to be televised. They also had 41 different radio broadcast in different countries. Hitler built a huge brand new stadium that sat, for the Olympic stadium that sat a hundred thousand people, six gymnasiums and other small venues all around Berlin. Nothing like this had ever been seen before in the history of the Olympics.
Michael: And Brad, I’m going to just say it’s a Friday. It’s a beautiful sunny day outside. And why are you having to bring some evil into our legal podcast? I think, Riley, just have the off button on his microphone on [00:02:00] the ready and unless he kind of turns this into some positivity.
Brad: Great point that there was a lot of evil in the beginning of that cause we’re about to get in a lot of good here, so fair enough, Michael. So as Michael remembers since he was there, or maybe he doesn’t remember because he’s so old, Jesse Owens of the United States won four gold medals in the sprint and long jumping events and became the most successful Olympian to compete in Berlin. Unfortunately, evil Germany did win the most medals with 89 metals and United States got second with 56 metals.
Michael: I guess that’s the classic we lost the battle, but then ended up winning the war.
Brad: That’s actually true, Michael.
Michael: Yeah, I know. I’m pretty smart for a non-history major.
Michael: I know that you are a history major.
Brad: That’s true.
Michael: So, where are you going with this, 1936 Olympics?
Brad: Well, of the 56 medals, one of the medals was won by the eight man or rowing team with the coxswain. There are differences between the two. The team or all [00:03:00] students of the University of Washington who also had won that year, the eight man Varsity rowing national championship.
Michael: Okay. Where are you going with rowing?
Brad: Alright. In my family, we have been talking about the University of Washington eight man or rowing team meddling at the Olympics for years because my grandfather was a coxswain win for the 1936 University of Washington freshman national championship eight man rowing team.
Michael: I feel like this is a backwards way of Brad introducing some of his humility, again, saying he has national champion in his blood.
Brad: I mean, if that’s what you’re saying, I mean, I’m not disagreeing with you.
Michael: Okay. Alright. Well, nicely played.
Brad: Okay. Well, I have heard this story for years and recently picked up a novel written by Daniel James Brown. It was published on June 4th, 2013. And in this novel, he really talks about the nine young men and their epic quest. And it’s really about transferring. It really [00:04:00] helped transfer the sport of rowing, grabbed the attention of millions of Americans, and these individuals are sons of loggers, ship workers, farmers, and most of them had been greatly impacted by the Great Depression.
Michael: Well, I’m missing some context, you know, that’s important to me, Brad. You didn’t tell me the name of the book, but you said they medaled?
Michael: Did they get gold?
Brad: Right. Sorry. Sorry for the missing the context. So the name of the book is The Boys in the Boat, Nine Americans, and the Epic Quest for Gold at the 1936 Berlin Olympics. Of course, Michael. I said they medaled, but I’m not going to ruin or give anything away as to what medal do they got.
Michael: Oh, okay. Well, I’m going to surprise you, Brad. I own this book.
Michael: Yeah. I haven’t read it yet.
Michael: In 2019, our favorite show on The Ticket, the morning show, Junior Miller did an entire segment on this book and I bought it and then, [00:05:00] my son Aiden probably borrowed it and I just got it back a few months ago.
Brad: Okay. I had two follow up questions. Number one, did he mentioned my grandfather?
Michael: He strangely did not mention it.
Michael: But he did say, Mr. Adatto has the right height to be a good participant in rowing.
Brad: Yes. That’s fair.
Michael: So now, okay, our sports craziness is coming into the podcast.
Brad: It is.
Michael: We have talked about tennis.
Michael: Talked about basketball, rowing now.
Brad: And typing.
Michael: Yes, that’s true and it is a sport. It is, it is. So where are we going with this today?
Brad: Alright, so the emotional heart of this book that you haven’t read since you’ve had forever lies with one rower named Joe Rantz. He’s a teenager. He was left by himself when he was 15 years old with no prospects, and it’s really about his life during the Great Depression and understanding the value that he had just to get a job or what a dollar was worth for him. [00:06:00] It’s really an amazing read. Since you haven’t read it, I do recommend Michael.
Brad: When I was preparing for today’s show, I had just finished the book and it made me start really thinking about inflation from 1936 to present day 2022, and I started doing some digging. So I got my research assistant Siri to help me, and I learned that a dollar 1936 is equivalent perching power, about $21 and 42 cents today. A cumulative change of 2041.81%. So a lot has changed since then.
Michael: Yes. Yeah, a lot has changed. So what do the stories have to do with today’s episode?
Brad: Besides giving my grandfather his third shoutout today for winning the Freshman National Championship, today’s story really has to do with investing time, blood, sweat, tears, money into a business, and then trying to figure out how to get a return on that in investment and ultimately hoping that despite inflation at the end of your career, you built something of value.
Michael: Alright. I’m curious. Let’s get into today’s story.
Brad: Alright, Michael. Today’s story is one you’re probably [00:07:00] familiar with.
Michael: More sports.
Brad: Oh gosh, no, Michael, no. Nothing to do with sports. No more sports talk. In this story, our client and the main owner of a very large multiple location, ENT practice, and he really desires to bring these new, younger partners on and we’ll call our main person, we’ll call him Dr. Busy.
Michael: So I’m guessing you’re going to tell us more about why you picked that name?
Michael: But you also just dropped in a word that is our first vocabulary word for the day. You said ENT. Now, Brad, because I’m not capable of pronouncing the proper medical term for the specialty, and I know if I can’t say it, there’s no way in the world you can say it.
Brad: Hold on, let me check. Yes, correct.
Michael: Yes. We’re just going to go with the plain English description. That is an ear, nose, throat doctor.
Brad: Perfect. Thank you, Michael, for the vocabulary word lesson there. And due to the volume of patient’s, number of locations and number of employees, Dr. Busy basically was working seven days a week to build and maintain this practice, [00:08:00] and he did have some few minor partners that had joined him years ago when the practice was kind of just starting off, but really at the ultimate, at the end of the day, it was basically 85% owned by him, and it was really his blood, sweat and tears, his vision that had really helped grow into a large multi-city practice.
Michael: Yeah, it’s a pretty common scenario.
Brad: Yeah. So Dr. Busy was ready to start selling off significant portions of his practice to his younger associates. And as the more senior doctors that were already partners, really weren’t interested in buying more of the practice. So, you know, he started hearing the rumors from the other, you know, doctors that not to worry about selling his portion of his practice, cause really wasn’t worth that much money to these younger physicians.
Michael: Yeah, so let me guess, he heard the classic locker room talk that the practice doesn’t have any value, that it’s only your professional goodwill and that, you know, that a medical practice has no value.
Brad: Yeah. You guessed it. You’ve heard the story before. So he considered basically just [00:09:00] selling off his ownership to these younger doctors just for a few thousand dollars each, and really ultimately, you know, calling it a career in the next few years.
Michael: Please, Brad, tell me that you made him hit the pause button and discussed what we’re seeing in the market.
Brad: Of course, we did. We discussed developing practice assessments, you know, covering what his financial looks like, what his legal, what his operational aspects of the practice, but for today’s show, Michael, I’m really just going to focus on the financial aspects cause I think if we got into all those, it’d get really long, but as we spent time on really examining his revenue streams and his overhead, that’s really what the focus was and as a reminder, he is Dr. Busy. So every month he was getting paid a salary and for him, at the end of year, he was getting this awesome distribution, but after doing this year, after year, after year, after year, it just felt like the normal practice of what everyone does in a medical practice.
Michael: And Dr. Busy probably like me would love to have context because he just knows what he knows. He’s getting the money that he’s getting paid, but he doesn’t know what that means.
Brad: [00:10:00] Right. And so for us, when we got brought into help with this exit strategy, you know, we said, well let’s talk about where is your revenue coming from? Is it based on your professional services? Is it because you’re the busiest guy and that’s where the money’s coming? Do you have ancillary service? Do you have an ASC cause you’re a surgeon or labs or imaging or, you’re using a lot of these mid-levels like your nurse practitioners and RNs and whatnot, and they’re helping contribute to that bottom line and you know, based on all this revenue, how does that then ultimately, impact your overhead?
Michael: Yeah, and, you know, for any practice or business for that matter, you know, the first place you look is their financials and specifically their profit and loss statement.
Brad: Their PnL.
Michael: Their PnL. Hey Brad, look at you. Financial guru.
Michael: I love it. Okay, well, the PnL is a great indicator of, you know, what are the sources of the money coming in? How’s the money being spent? Caveat being, you have to keep and maintain your books in a good and accurate way for your PnL to be [00:11:00] accurate. So, if those have been maintained well over the years, then your PnL can really give you some good information on that front.
Brad: Yeah, it’s a good reflection of how your business is doing. And so once he actually kind of, he is Dr. Busy, slowed down, he actually did realize he had a substantial amount of his revenue was actually coming from his ancillary services and he started to switch thinking maybe his practice was actually worth something here. But, when he went through the drill of, well, how do you value your practice, is what a lot of people start going through and, you know, he’s obviously not trained on public stock exchange. He’s not Apple or Microsoft. So he felt like he’s just really ultimately throwing darts at a wall to try to figure out what he’s worth.
Michael: It’s funny too when this happens, cause the doctors’ self-perception of the value of their practice really starts almost being a litmus test of their own self-esteem because they tend to go one of two extreme ways.
Michael: They’re either like, oh, my practice is worth nothing, or my practices are worth $1 [00:12:00] billion.
Brad: Yes, yes. And by the way, audience members, Michael and I’s practice is worth 2 billion.
Brad: And now, so at this point, he agreed to hire outside independent appraiser that we had introduced him to, to establish what is the actual value of the practice, and we’ll talk a little bit more about how they look at this, but after months of calls and emails and back and forth and meetings with his independent appraiser, we finally received the valuation. And Dr. Busy was surprised to learn the appraisal was much higher than he even thought it would be.
Michael: Well, that’s great news.
Brad: Yeah. Not really. As Dr. Busy may have casually mentioned to some of his younger associates that he didn’t really think his practice was worth that much, you know, and the typical scrubbing in for surgery kind of thing and now the appraisal came into place and he has a top tier practice based on the revenue and overhead. And now he had to choose what was he going to do with this information?
Michael: Yikes. Well, I think Dr. Busy needs some therapy and some negotiation lessons. Brad, do we need to get into regulatory talk for this show [00:13:00] on the fair market value?
Brad: Oh my gosh, Michael, bringing regulatory talk. Good observation. Oh no. Cut that. Riley, don’t let me ever say good observation to Michael. Good observation person sitting across from me. Actually, we did discuss that, but for today’s show we won’t really concentrate on that because I really want to stick on the financial piece. Yes, as our audience members know, there’s a ton of healthcare industry regulations that they have to be aware of and, audience members, fast forward, it can impact your business and the evaluation process, but in this situation for Dr. Busy, he was really worried about how he’s going to show this to his potential partners, the true value. And he was afraid that no one was going to buy it. It’s just too much. And he also was concerned that they wouldn’t understand his corporate model and that you know, it just got really complicated. And many of them, you know, the younger associates like, well, we want the title “partner”, but they never really thought of that. What does that mean? And what does it cost to become a partner?
Michael: Well, what was [00:14:00] unique about the corporate model?
Brad: Oh, wait, did I fail to mention that he had a management service organization, an ambulatory surgery center, and that was also owned by the same founders and the practice also had an internal lab and great revenue from their PAs and NPSs?
Michael: Well, it’s with great joy, Brad, that I can affirm, yes, you failed. Please record that and mark that, Riley. Yes. You did not let us know that. So, the valuation, did it encompass all three of these different entities?
Brad: Yeah, so we did bring the valuation where we looked at all three different entities and most of these younger doctors really, you know, they’re doctors, they show up and they’re treating patients and they show up and they do surgery. They never really thought about these different entities and you know, they’re just practicing ENTs.
Michael: So where was the hard conversation?
Brad: Okay, we’re going to get there. Dr. Busy, first, he had to wrestle with this surprising information that his practice had this great worth.
Michael: Well, as we’ve said before this season, you can’t [00:15:00] have a hard conversation until you’re clear as to what you want.
Brad: Dr. Busy needed to really convince himself, Michael, to accept the valuation on its face and not second guess presenting these facts and numbers to young physicians or secondarily, that he has to, you know, and that it’s worth spending the time and energy to explain the corporate model.
Michael: Okay? What happened?
Brad: Honestly, you know, he kept really struggling with this and more importantly, he kept kind of arguing with himself and adding me to the thought process. And, you know, it really got to the point where we were having, like paralysis by analysis.
Michael: There are a lot of negative thoughts to overcome when you’re going through that and it kind of creates this doubt. And if you’re an analytical person by nature that can happen. We’ve seen it happen, you know, we talk about a few times on this show that this general perception that a practice does not have value. And so that can create doubt. And then, you know, he had already started setting expectations with his associates by letting it slip that he did not think it would have value. And so [00:16:00] now it does have value and so that creates doubt. Like how do you engage those expectations that he set?
Brad: Yeah. Well finally, he actually did determine, present the actual facts to his potential young partners and invited them to the board meeting to explain the model and valuation.
Michael: Dun, dun, dun. Good for Dr. Busy. He put his big boy pants on and had the hard conversation. This is great.
Brad: Sort of. As you said, sometimes you have the hard conversation, it works, it doesn’t work. Some of the potential young partners were floored by the number that they saw that they had to pay in to get in and at the model and they really felt betrayed. They weren’t sophisticated enough to understand why was the model broken up. They didn’t really understand the revenue numbers, and there’s a lot of misunderstandings and hurt feelings in that room and the other half of some of these younger potential partners quickly understood the potential ROI and so they saw a bigger picture and potential, and this actually excited them.
Michael: You’re just [00:17:00] starting to show off and pretend like you’re like, you know, Mr. Wall Street over there. Stop using these fancy terms like ROI. Let’s give ’em a little vocab word.
Michael: ROI means return on investment. That’s basically…
Brad: I didn’t know what it meant. Thanks.
Michael: Oh, well, yeah.
Brad: Appreciate that.
Michael: You pulled it off kind of until you just admitted you don’t know.
Brad: Yeah. Strike that again, Riley.
Michael: Okay. Well, ROI is basically somewhat intuitive in the sense you invest into it. What are you going to get back out of it? Whether that’s in terms of distributions or ultimate, you know, ultimately the value that you get out of it. And it’s used often by, you know, financial people as a performance measure. And so understanding the efficiency of your investment and how fast you’re going to get your money back is a key element.
Brad: Yeah. Thank you Professor Michael. Well, Dr. Busy felt like, you know, he actually was dealing with the dumpster fire as the potential younger partners were upset with [00:18:00] the practice. Not all of ’em, but some, and he realized that they just needed to have a better understanding of why these entities were separated and how the third parties developed this valuation. So Dr. Busy started to dedicate time and resources to educate his younger partners. He actually had his attorneys, one, I heard was dashingly good looking.
Michael: I’m blushing. It was really nice of you once again to compliment my looks, but remember I wasn’t in the story.
Brad: Strike that again, Riley. So he had us, the attorneys, develop flow charts and sit down with the potential young partners and some of the young partners’ attorneys did attend and really understand why the model is built that way. We also had the, Dr. Busy had the third party valuation firm come in, do the exact same logistics, explaining the numbers, and so that he could really say, look, this is, you know, from his perspective, stepping outside of him just talking, just trying to make sure that these doctors had a better understanding of the model, [00:19:00] grasping the opportunity for them in the future, and why buying this practice could eventually be great for them in helping really reestablish and set expectations.
Michael: Well, this is really powerful to see how he was really leaning into this hard conversation. Brad, before you let us know what happened with Dr. Busy in his busy practice, let’s go on break and come back and talk about some lessons to be learned from today’s story and tell the audience what happened at the end.
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Brad: Welcome back to Legal 123s with ByrdAdatto. I’m your host, Brad Adatto. I’m still here with my co-host Michael Byrd. Now Michael, this season our theme is hard conversations.
Michael: Yeah. And today we’re talking about Dr Busy, our ENT, who built a busy practice.
Brad: He did.
Michael: And had a lot of…
Brad: Successful practice.
Michael: …success. Yes. And value over the years. And it was coming time to start selling off to his associates and he had to overcome a lot. He had to overcome some perceptions that were out there in the world about values of practices. He may not have done the best and setting an expectations, and he kind of started stumbling his way through the process to actually get evaluation. Find out his practice had a significant amount of worth and, Brad, the hero came in and started helping him prepare for his hard [00:21:00] conversation to really educate his associates. And that’s where we left off is he actually did it. He got in there and started explaining his model and the numbers, and kind of turned into it.
Michael: Well, let’s pause and take a step back and catch our audience up on kind of some of the legal issues raised with our story so far.
Brad: Yeah, and Michael, you know, when we work with clients on developing their governing documents, we often use certain internal tools that we call the four Cs. And I know our audience members have probably heard us talk about this before, but these tools are used as mechanisms to help really have our clients really focus on what’s important elements of planning for their business. And that can be lots of different areas. And Michael, maybe you can just remind the audience on a high level, what are the four Cs that we typically look to?
Michael: Yeah, so the four Cs, again, these are things we’ve identified, will, you know, kind of make or break the success [00:22:00] of a partnership relationship to guys that are co-owners. And in this case, you know, Dr. Busy selling to his associates. The four Cs are cost, compensation, control, and contingencies. Cost is, you know, what is someone paying and what are they getting for that payment, for the ownership? Compensation is, what is the comp model going to look like after they’re partners together? Control, how are decisions going to be made now that they’re partners? And contingencies are the what ifs. The, you know, the death, disability and all those different scenarios that would come up. We use the analogy to a prenup in a marriage.
Brad: Well, Michael, you know, you did mention the four Cs, but today let’s really focus on one of the four Cs, which is the cost element as this had a big impact on today’s story and obviously Dr. Busy’s practice. So let’s really, for our audience members, [00:23:00] what are some of the, you know, we’re not third party appraisers, but we’ve been around them enough times to know that there’s certain methodologies that they utilize to how to figure out what is a business worth, and what is a potential buyer going to pay and how do we kind of educate them on that? So what are some of the valuation approaches that most valuation firms use for these types of entities?
Michael: Yeah, I’m glad you gave that caveat, especially in case there are valuation appraisers out there because they’ll quickly know that I’m not that, but we know enough to lay it out.
Brad: At a very high level.
Michael: At a very high level, yes. So essentially the weigh in appraiser, they have a license and they are governed to, you know, have three different approaches they use to determine the value of a business and the three approaches are the cost approach, income approach, and market approach. And they have to look at all three and consider all three and then they can eliminate some if they’re not [00:24:00] applicable to land at what they deem to be the value. The cost approach is kind of the net asset value and kind of thinking about the financials, this is looking at the balance sheet of a business. It’s the assets and the liabilities are evaluated and they use the balance sheet to arrive at a value. The income approach is, kind of discounted cash flow approach and they’re looking at the PnL essentially there, and they’re looking at the profits of the business and then using a multiple based on what they believe to be the repeatability of that profitability. And the more it is repeatable and using their tools, then that pushes the valuation. And then the market approach is to look at comparable sales of similar businesses and using that data to arrive at the value.
Brad: And then they take all of that and then basically compress it to what they believe to be that [00:25:00] magic number. And, I’ll say this, that you, and I probably say this, you know, for a lot of these third party appraising appraisers, you want to, if you are going that route, you probably want to work with someone who understands the market of your doing because that market data that they’ve touched is going to be helpful for you. But, you know, for, I guess our audience members who are listening, this might feel like its very intense sounding and you know that I gotta go out and hire this third party appraiser to help me with this. You know, Michael, if we just took a back of the napkin, try to really figure out what should I be looking at to figure out what my practice is worth without really hiring this outside valuation firm? What have you seen others just kind of utilize as a stick? You know, we were throwing darts with the valuation firm onto a, a dart board. Now we’re just throwing darts onto the wall, but we’re still looking in a general direction with this method.
Michael: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there’s some formulas that you hear about that are used and negotiated by people that are, you know, buying and selling practices. [00:26:00] The classics are for a surgical practice and I say classes cause the market’s changed a lot.
Michael: Recently. But you’ll hear, you know, three times EBITDA for a surgical practice, which is basically the free cash flow or the adjusted profits of the business or four or six times that for a medical spa or a surgery center. We’ve even seen, you know, medical practices’ value based on gross revenues.
Michael: We’ve closed deals where it’d be like 52% of gross revenue. Now, the M&A market’s going crazy.
Michael: And so I was talking to an investment banker a few months ago and he gave me this really nice kind of litmus test or, you know, measurement, and he said, look, the way the market’s evolving, if you’ve got a business that’s under 5 million in gross revenues, you’re seeing multiples that range from, you know, one to four times EBITDA. He said, if you’ve got a business that’s in the 5 to 10 million in gross revenues, you’re seeing that [00:27:00] creep up to, you know, five to seven times or five to six times, you know, free cash flow or EBITDA. And then if you’re north of 10, that’s where you start seeing ’em go north of six, seven, you know, we’ve got almost gotten to 10 times EBITDA on some of these practices. Now again, take all of this with a grain of salt, but the purpose is if you want to have, you know, an idea or some boundaries, that’s a good way to kind of think about what a practice could be worth.
Brad: You’ve thrown EBITDA out a lot. Do you actually want to say the exact, I see you said basically cash flow, but what does it mean?
Michael: Earnings before interest, taxes and depreciation.
Michael: And that again, we will reveal our true finance knowledge if we go any deeper so let’s stop.
Brad: Yes. Again, we’re not experts in the area. We just know enough to say dangerous words. Now, Michael, in today’s story, we discussed how this [00:28:00] practice, which is owned by physicians, had three different entities. In this case that they had the medical practice itself. We had an ambulatory surgery center and we had a management service organization. And I know in other shows we’ve talked about CPOM and ASC ownership, but I think for audience members, maybe, are they wondering, is it unusual for a management service organization to be owned just by physicians?
Michael: Well, not at all. We did the published an MSO field guide that you could find on our website. One of the fourth articles is the business functions. We actually had in that fourth article one called the Glue Plan, where you use an MSO to kind of bring together these separate entities that have some connectedness to them. And so no, it’s not unusual at all, but certainly relevant when you’re trying to figure out how to buy and sell a practice. So tell me, Brad, what happened with Dr. Busy?
Brad: Yeah, so back to the story. Now, [00:29:00] Michael, after much handholding and conversations and paralysis by analysis between us and the collective attorneys, and, again, we were dealing with lots of other attorneys, all the young partners didn’t get just one. Eventually, the majority of these young physicians realized this practice had some great cash flow and especially on the ancillary side. And they saw their ability to grow to the next level and they wanted to buy in. And those who bought in were rewarded for several years in a row. After they bought in the practice actually had some really of its best years. In fact, it blew up in all the good ways and Dr. Busy was still happy though. He had started a process of selling his ownership of the practice. And as a recent update, he notified the group that he is in the last stage of his career. He plans to slow down almost completely and sell the rest of his shares. So, it turned out to be a good, happy ending that he had that hard conversation, but you know, and actually received the rewards of growing a [00:30:00] great business. So, Michael, some final thoughts?
Michael: You never answered the question earlier, Brad. Did the boys in the boat win the gold medal?
Brad: I’m not sure if I should.
Michael: Well, we know Dr. Busy and his quest for gold did win.
Brad: He did, he did. So read the book. Audience members first, as a reminder, we’ll have our first ever live podcast, Saturday, February 4th in Las Vegas at the 2023 Medical Spa Show so show up, be there, be loud, cheer for me. And due to some copyright reasons, the live show will be released a few weeks later, so it won’t be released the same day, but do not panic. Next week, we’ll continue to get on the path of hard conversations. We’ll address a story which everyone loves to discuss, and it’s not sports, Michael, how much money should I get paid? AKA, what is your compensation?
Outro: Thanks again for joining us today, and remember, if you like this episode, please subscribe. Make sure to give us a five star rating and share with [00:31:00] your friends. You can also sign up for the ByrdAdatto newsletter by going to our website at ByrdAdatto.com. ByrdAdatto is providing this podcast as a public service. This podcast is for educational purposes only. This podcast does not constitute legal advice, nor does it establish an attorney-client relationship. Reference to any specific product or entity does not constitute an endorsement or recommendation by ByrdAdatto. The views expressed by guests are their own and their appearance on the program does not imply an endorsement of them or any entity they represent. Please consult with an attorney on your legal issues.