Health care is a unique industry governed by both business and health care laws. Taking it a step further, each specialty within health care has its own nuances that are important to understand. This season’s theme is Specialty Spotlight. Each episode will focus on a specialty’s business, health care, and legal hurdles.
In this episode, hosts and sons of doctors, Michael Byrd and Brad Adatto discuss their fathers’ specialties and highlight some of the compliance challenges they faced. They also celebrate the podcast’s 100th episode!
Listen to the full episode using the player below, or by visiting one of the links below. Below is the episode’s transcript which has been edited for readability. If you have any questions or would like to learn more, email us at info@byrdadatto.com.
Transcript
Intro: [00:00:00] Welcome to Legal 123s with ByrdAdatto. Legal issues simplified through real client stories and real world experiences. Creating simplicity in 3, 2, 1.
Brad: Welcome back to another season of the Legal 123s with ByrdAdatto. I’m your host Brad Adatto with my co-host Michael Byrd.
Michael: Thanks Brad. You made it to season nine. You’ve aged a bit since this started but I’m sure you feel better than you look.
Brad: I feel great. That’s a low blow and any aging I’m revealing right now are natural consequences to being a partner with you and having to sit across from you during this podcast.
Michael: Whew. As my kids would say, you burned me back. Speaking of age, Brad, our podcast is celebrating a big birthday today.
Brad: I know, happy 100! Audience members who are watching us can see these beautiful balloons behind our heads right now. We have a cake sitting in front of us, [00:01:00] an upgrade to our studio, all for the hundredth episode.
Michael: If you feel an amp up in energy you’ll know it’s from the sugar if I start eating this cake while we’re recording,
Brad: No doubt. Well, yes, we’re kicking off season nine with the hundredth episode.
Michael: It’s been an amazing almost four year journey since we first discussed having a podcast. Brad, what do you remember about how it started?
Brad: Yeah, the greatest part is, and we’ve referenced it and had this gentleman on our show before, but Tim Sawyer was sitting there talking to us. He said, you guys are dynamic speakers. I love the way y’all tell stories. Y’all need to start a podcast. I remember us like, yeah, that sounds great. We had to do a deep dive and maybe that’s cause we’re attorneys or maybe just cause we’re so analytical. We spent a lot of time really going through that process of trying to figure out what does that podcast look like? How should it feel? What do you put in a podcast? How do you get the equipment? How do you find people like Riley? I mean, all the things that we started going [00:02:00] through, knowing we had this background in speaking, but turning it into a podcast.
Michael: Like so many things that have happened in our careers, our biggest vision did not have a room like this for a hundred episode with a cake.
Brad: No, no. That’s true.
Michael: It’s amazing. I think about our first experience recording an episode and we were so excited. We were in this room. It didn’t look anything like this.
Brad: No.
Michael: We started recording and we both felt like fish outta water. We had, as we mentioned, lectured for years at conferences yet this just required a different muscle group. I don’t think either of us anticipated it and basically we ended up trashing our first recording and starting over.
Brad: Yeah. Michael, you probably shouldn’t have told them that we had to do a redo, but we definitely had to take a mulligan on that very first one, but good news is, audience, we did save it. It will be sold as an NFT. Bidding will start now.
Michael: Yeah. [00:03:00] If there’s ever a time where they make us pay to give it away, that first recording might be it. Seriously though, I know this is cliché, but I just have so many great memories of the recording process.
Brad: Yeah. We’ve had these amazing guests. We’ve had some fun stories and there’s so many different behind the scene moments. There are moments where you couldn’t and I couldn’t hold it together cause we were laughing so hard internally.
Michael: Yeah. I mean we’re constantly trying to say something just immature enough to get the other person derailed. There have been a few episodes where I cracked myself up trying to crack you up and I could barely hold it together the rest of the time that we were recording but I don’t know. What about you, Brad? Do you have a favorite memory or proudest parent moment of our podcast?
Brad: I mean, favorite memory? There’s so many, too close for me to even narrow it down to one but [00:04:00] being the parent side of it, what’s been amazing is when we finish recording an episode we think it sounds great normally except the one that we trash, but unlike a public speech where you’re there in person and you get the immediate gratitude of people lining up to talk to you, when we record a podcast it may take weeks, months even before we get any feedback from an audience. Luckily for us, we have an awesome audience. Y’all have been giving us some amazing feedback and so I’m proud that we found a platform for us to continue to be ourselves, good, better, and different and still find a way to educate others. How about you, Michael?
Michael: Yeah. Well, the being ourselves part is true. I mean, us trying to derail each other is pretty much our daily life.
Brad: Yes.
Michael: I love it. Every time I meet someone in person that says they’re a fan of our podcast it feels so real. We see the numbers and are blown away when we hear the statistics on the number of downloads from our listeners. It just doesn’t feel as real. It’s almost surreal when you see that. When I’m [00:05:00] talking to an actual human who says they love our show it’s a really cool experience.
Brad: Yeah and you and I both had these great moments where we have spoken to someone who’s a potential client and they mention how much they enjoy our podcast. I think for me, Michael, some of the cooler moments when we’ve had long existing clients of ours who’ve been in the industry for long periods of time, they end up telling us, hey, I listened to your show and I got so much valuable information and I guess from my perspective it’s like, wow, you’re in this industry. I didn’t think I could teach you anything new and that you’re getting stuff from our show is great. What I also love about it is, and you and I both have this conversation with others, is people who are just getting into the industry, the first time person to a long time serial entrepreneur, they’ve all said they’ve enjoyed different aspects of the show.
Michael: Really Brad, we can’t reflect without talking about our show’s north star, our stabilizing force.
Brad: Me.
Michael: No Brad, our producer Riley.
Brad: Yes. Also known as the most positive, joyful [00:06:00] person we know. She’s handled all kind of crazy technical difficulties in the middle of recording, and has kept us really calm. In fact, audience members, behind the scenes we’ve had some technical difficulties and you don’t even know it yet because she’s always calm, always smiling, and just amazing.
Michael: So Riley we want you to jump on with us, get on air on the other side and talk with us just for a minute about your experiences with producing the show.
Riley: Well, thank you. You guys know my face is already turning red from the attention.
Brad: Yes.
Riley: But thank you. It’s the best time I’m sure our audience can imagine, but we truly have the best time recording the show every week. We’re constantly laughing and definitely have our fair share of blooper reels.
Michael: This is true.
Brad: Yes
Riley: But it really is so fun to hear from all of you so if you love the podcast please let us know. We really love hearing from all of you.
Michael: I don’t wanna put you on the [00:07:00] spot, Riley, but talk a little bit about why you think I’m better than Brad at recording.
Brad: I’m sorry, Riley. You don’t have to answer that. I know how hard it would be for you to tell him he’s not.
Riley: If I had a dollar for every time I heard that. Michael and Brad, congratulations on one hundred episodes.
Michael: Thank you.
Brad: Well, thank you and thank you for being part of almost 900 of them it seems like.
Michael: Okay. Well, that was fun. It’s time to get to work, Brad.
Brad: All right.
Michael: As a business and healthcare law firm, we represent clients in multiple sectors and multiple specialties, especially healthcare.
Brad: Wait, cut, cut, cut. Michael, this is season nine. You’re going on the opening of season eight.
Michael: Oh, now you’re acting like one of my kids with the interrupting. Brad, hang with me. Let’s try this again. Just bear with me. Okay.
Brad: All right.
Michael: Okay. As a business and healthcare law firm, we represent clients in multiple sectors and multiple specialties, especially healthcare. This season, our theme is specialty spotlight where each [00:08:00] episode we’ll visit about some of the nuances that can be found from a business and healthcare perspective in the various practice specialties.
Brad: If we are going to shine the spotlight on a specialty, I think it’s time for me to open the closet door and shine the light on the specialties in high school for you. Michael was referenced last season in another show but, audience members, you all know this, Michael loves context.
Michael: Don’t do it, Brad.
Brad: Oh yeah. We’re going there. Yes, audience, Michael was known at least by a few people as the captain of the tennis team in high school, but his real calling, audience members, was typing.
Michael: I wish I could deny this.
Brad: My understanding, now this is coming from a good mutual friend of ours, a guy named Oliver Christ who was a classmate of Michael’s in high school, was that Michael went to state for typing. What does that even [00:09:00] mean, Michael?
Michael: I grew up in Texas, Brad.
Brad: Okay.
Michael: They actually had typing competitions that measured you on speed and accuracy. You would advance just like other sports, well, I guess you’d call it a sport, to district, regionals, and then state.
Brad: All right. First off, was it one of those old typewriters that made all that clicking sounds, at the end of each page you had to hit that cartridge return and go all the way back and you had to start all over the next time.
Michael: Is there any other kind of typewriter? Yes, it was.
Brad: All right. Second, how does one get into competitive typing? Did you go to a typing camp or have a private typing coach? Did that coach start yelling at you to have quick fingers, quick fingers, quick, quick, quick, quick, quick, or you have like special finger stretching things that you did for preparing for typing?
Michael: I think you’re starting to bully me a little bit, Brad. Okay, once and for all I will share the real story about how it all went down, but [00:10:00] it’s just between us, okay?
Brad: Okay. Well, don’t be distracted by Riley and I laughing hysterically as you tell the story.
Michael: Oh, okay. Once upon a time, a long time ago, this is the 1980s, I was in typing with Ms. Self at my high school in 10th grade. Typing was an elective back when they still used typewriters, as I said, back in the 1980s, this is about 1986.
Brad: I can just see little Michael sitting there with this typewriter, banging away at this old typewriter.
Michael: Oh yeah. So I get into this class and we’re doing the things you do at the beginning of typing, learning the basic skills.
Brad: Finger positions?
Michael: Yeah. You know, they put up a line and we have to try to type it. You know, it was on the little AV thing that they put on the wall and you’re having to basically copy it and Ms. Self must have noticed something special, Brad.
Brad: Oh yeah. I bet she did.
Michael: She walked by and she [00:11:00] pulled me and two other people aside and said that there was a such thing as competitive typing and that she thought that, that would be something that we would all be really good at. So for the rest of that semester, when I showed up to class every day they handed me a Walkman, do you remember what that is?
Brad: Well, thanks to Stranger Things, which is a TV show that almost everyone including my kids are watching, people now have recently learned what a Walkman is.
Michael: Okay so I would get a cassette tape and I would go into the corner with a typewriter and would practice. All I would be practicing was speed and accuracy all day. I got free one hundreds on all the stuff like learning how to write a letter and all the stuff you learn in typing. I just got an auto one hundred for it. That was actually probably the best thing about my competitive career in typing. If you don’t believe [00:12:00] me, one of our friends, Robin Pew, who we’ve referenced on the show and had on as a guest, his wife, Karen was in Ms. Self’s class with me and she witnessed it all firsthand, including the moment that I got pulled aside and tapped to go into competitive typing.
Brad: This person, Ms. Self, it kind of sounds more like a made up person’s name like that girlfriend you had in high school from Niagara Falls. Do you really mean myself was the teacher?
Michael: Well, first of all, Brad, we agreed we weren’t gonna talk about Niagara Falls and girlfriends anymore. Ms. Self was the real deal. This all really happened. Look, we’re talking about this because one of our mutual buddies ratted me out. I was perfectly content with this being…
Brad: Thank you, Oliver.
Michael: in the closet.
Brad: Well, now that we’ve fast forwarded since this was in the eighties and for those keeping track, Michael is 700, how are your typing skills today?
Michael: Well, sadly, I’m not the same. I mean, don’t get me wrong, I’m faster than you.
Brad: Is it because you don’t wear a Walkman anymore? [00:13:00]
Michael: That and I don’t type that much anymore, other than thumb typing, which was not a thing back then. I’m not in competition game shape with my current typing skills.
Brad: Well, good thing for our audience to know is there’s nothing in my life to be embarrassed about.
Michael: Oh, Brad. Bradford, yes you do. The audience needs to know that you’re a specialist when it comes to gaming and not any type of gaming, role playing games or RPG as they call it on the streets.
Brad: You know, Michael, this is our hundredth episode and our audience really wants us to get on with the show today so let’s move on and keep going to where we’re supposed to go next.
Michael: No, no, Brad this is too important cause this is when you and I were young friends and just learning the art of giving each other a hard time.
Brad: Yes.
Michael: I remember distinctly being in your office at our old firm talking and Marcus, our I.T. guy, walking in and throwing a paper [00:14:00] hand grenade into your office. The conversation that ensued between the two of you was like a foreign language. I was like, what is happening right now? I cannot wait to capitalize on this moment and torture you.
Brad: Little did I know you’d have to wait over a decade to capitalize it in a podcast, but let’s take even a bigger step back from context perspective. My dad was a gadget guy and I remember the first computer console we ever had was Pong and it was that, you know, whoop whoop.
Michael: Oh yeah.
Brad: So then we got the Atari, then we got the next upgrade, the next upgrade. So I got bit pretty early on all these different types of games that are out there. So all the different consoles that have come through us, I’ve always enjoyed it as a good way to have some mind numbing downtime, just as a doctor might order. So, that’s been the fun part from my downtime moments.
Michael: What was your game? [00:15:00]
Brad: I don’t know if I have a game anymore. It’s been a while so I can’t say that there’s been a game that’s really stood out to me because there’s strategic games that are like chess then there’s first person game. Marcus, that day was talking about Halo. So, I think it’s time to move on.
Michael: I think we both lost and may have overshared Brad. I hope our audience is sticking with us and still loves us.
Brad: Yeah. I think there could be an entire episode on gaming, which you would die over and an entire episode on movies, which you might die over too. So I think we’ll move on to what we’re here for today.
Michael: Yeah. Season eight was another guest heavy season and I don’t know if you remember Brad, we interviewed each other in our opening episode.
Brad: Yes, Michael. I was there and everyone knows again, I was the best guest on the show that day.
Michael: We’re gonna do the same thing this season, Brad, except with a twist. We’re gonna interview each other about our father’s practice [00:16:00] specialties and spend some time highlighting the differences that various specialties face and how this affects them in business and healthcare compliance.
Brad: I wanna point out to the audience first off that we have this technicality that we are not our first guest, for the opening of this season. I like the way we’re already starting with season nine, we’re just channeling our inner dads from their perspective, so that we can really talk about their specialties. So again, we’re not guests, we’re channeling our dads. So let’s start with channeling your dad. Tell us about your dad’s specialty.
Michael: My dad was a plastic surgeon. He had kind of a couple of different areas of focus and it evolved over the years, but essentially for most of his career, he was an adult cosmetic surgeon and a pediatric craniofacial surgeon. Pediatric craniofacial surgeons operate on kids primarily with clef lips and clef palates and then the [00:17:00] adult cosmetic side was mostly elective cosmetic surgery. It’s important if you’re talking about the specialty of plastic surgery to just appreciate that there are so many different subspecialties, those are just two. There’s micro, there is hand, there’s adult, other adult reconstructive surgery, and then there’s facial focused cosmetic surgery or body focused cosmetic surgery.
Brad: Michael, for our audience who does not know, his dad is one of my favorite Byrd’s of all time. In fact, I have him ranked number two, because his sister Meredith is my favorite Byrd of all time and then Michael’s nieces are working for us right now so they might rank ahead of Michael. For those who don’t know Steve Byrd, he’s a great gentleman and a really fantastic surgeon, but a great human being on top of that. Switching to my dad, my dad being an orthopedic surgeon, [00:18:00] he had his fellowship in hand, so that was his focus. He, as the audience knows, we were based out of New Orleans and so he started many different clinics there. One was called the Louisiana clinic. Another one was called the New Orleans orthopedic clinic. Over the years, his focus was always on sports medicine. That was his specialty, but like all orthopedics, he had worked on different aspects. There are a lot of subspecialties now that are more focused than they used to be, but bones and joints and ligaments and tendons and muscles can all be broken up in the different areas. Some of are even spine. My dad, he really enjoyed every aspect of it. Again, focused on the hand, but near the end, just doing some knee scopes, but I think one of the biggest kicks he got out of being an orthopedic surgeon, he ended up being second opinion for the NFL. A lot of times when someone wanted another doctor to look at them, they would fly into New Orleans and dad got to see them.
Michael: I’ll just pause for a little bit of a proud son moment. I don’t think we spent enough time [00:19:00] acknowledging how big of a deal both of our dads were in their respective specialties and what an amazing part of being healthcare attorneys that’s been for us, cause we’ve seen it and experienced it in ways that we wouldn’t have when we’ve had other doctors come up and talked to us about how something they learned from one of our fathers was really cool. Tell me Brad, next question. What are the biggest patient challenges in your father’s specialty?
Brad: I’d say for them, just in general, is that when they’re doing trauma coverage and trauma patients, those are the hard ones. My dad always called it the young man’s sport, when you have call coverage and you’re dealing with trauma patients. Trauma could be obviously a sports injury or trauma could be with a car incident where someone breaks their shoulder or ankle or worse, then trying to deal with those expectations of those trauma situations with those [00:20:00] patients. Well, we could go into payers, but I don’t think that we would really have to heavily go into that because that is an aspect, but trauma patients are the hardest ones to deal with because of the impact it has on an individual. Hurt in a job, hurt in a car or hurt playing, you know a sport.
Michael: Yeah, I’m guessing if you have a gunshot wound that it doesn’t feel very good. You’re not gonna be very happy with your doctor if they can’t take that pain away.
Brad: You think about it most of the time when it comes to orthopedic, it’s not elective in the sense of like, oh, I wanna get this surgery. It’s something bad happened to that patient and put them in a bad situation and especially on the trauma side.
Michael: Right.
Brad: So it’s hard.
Michael: Yeah, I can just kind of jump off of the air, Brad, because in plastics, especially in cosmetics, it’s an elective procedure so you’re managing expectations from a different front. You have clients that are choosing to be operated on and they’re carrying expectations about what they [00:21:00] expect to look like from the surgery and so there’s a real discipline in making sure you’re aligned with a patient on expectations that they’re a good match for surgery. There’s a lot of mental health issues that you have to learn how to kind of identify and flag so that you are doing the right thing by a patient with what they’re asking for. Even on the pediatric cranial facial side, those kids are patients throughout their childhood. They oftentimes are having multiple surgeries from the time their infants until they’re teenagers and there’s integrated care with other specialists. There’s amazing bonds that are formed there, but there’s also kind of unique challenges that go with that kind of a journey with the patient and with the patient’s family.
Brad: Absolutely.
Michael: So talk about from a business perspective, Brad, kind of the biggest [00:22:00] business challenges in your father’s specialty.
Brad: Yeah, for orthopedic there are a lot, but I think for a lot of orthos, for them to grow their practice they want to concentrate on what type of ancillaries can they touch on behalf of their patients? What are the ways they can extend their service line? Obviously in most orthopedic practices you might go in and there’ll be an x-ray machine so they can obviously x-ray your bones. Larger groups might have a CT or MRI machine, so they’ll have all those imaging aspects of it so from a growth perspective, the patient doesn’t have to go somewhere else. It can all be handled in house. Then as you grow as an organization, depending on your patient mix, you might even have labs or post-surgery, might have physical therapy or to do a day surgery you might have an ambulatory surgery center, which I know we’ll talk a lot more with the guests later this season. All those are different ways for them to look at ways to, with their focus and their specialty of finding other means of revenue, but more importantly, ways of controlling the patient [00:23:00] care by keeping it inside of your practice.
Michael: Yeah. When we talk about ancillaries as Brad just mentioned, I mean, these are things that are not part of the normal care, like the physician providing surgery.
Brad: Sure.
Michael: Most specialties have ancillaries that are typically associated with them. In plastic surgery, for example, you hear medical spas are a common ancillary business to the plastics. There’s some challenges that go with that and opportunities because there’s a different type of staffing, a different approach when you’re dealing with the noninvasive side of medicine versus the invasive side of medicine. Surgery centers are common. You mentioned that in orthopedics. In plastics, it’s also a common opportunity, but it’s a challenge because the view of the business people and the view of the [00:24:00] hospitals are typically that plastic surgeons are not quote profitable in a surgery center because of the amount of time it takes for a typical plastic surgery procedure. Then just some other business challenges on the craniofacial side, they’re so integrated with the hospital relationship that there’s issues about whether they’re gonna be kind of part of the hospital’s employees or a service line where they have a contract to service patients of a hospital. On the cosmetic side, your business partners are also your competitors.
Brad: Yeah.
Michael: So there’s some unique challenges on that front.
Brad: No doubt about that piece. So let’s switch, one more question. Michael, and again focusing on your dad’s practices, tell us about the biggest healthcare compliance challenges for your father’s specialty.
Michael: So for plastic surgery, scope of practice issues, I mentioned the medical spa.
Brad: Yeah. [00:25:00]
Michael: The corporate practice of medicine, which we’ve talked about a ton on this show because there’s a lot of opportunities in plastic surgery to partner with non-doctors, supervision and delegation of other providers is a big, kind of challenge and topic. Then on the reconstructive side, there’s a lot oftentimes out of network, in network insurance related challenges.
Brad: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, most of those, audience members you can imagine, can also somewhat roll into the orthopedic side, obviously, except for the med spa piece. For orthopedics because a heavy amount of orthopedic practices have a lot of Medicare patients because of aging and hip replacements and people falling down right, going back to trauma, because of that they need to be very well aware. There are certain regulations that they have to be familiar with. They have to be familiar with certain federal laws and most of the time people hear physician self-referral law or also named stark [00:26:00] law or the federal anti-kickback statute. Those will be the ones that we’ve talked about in other shows, but it feels like in orthopedics it’s hard to have a conversation with anyone in that specialty without those two rules coming to play in some perspective.
Michael: Right. Good stuff. Well, let’s go into commercial, Brad, and on the other side, we can talk about some kind of legal wrap up from our discussion today.
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Brad: Welcome to the hundredth episode. That’s right. The hundredth [00:27:00] episode, the Legal 123s with ByrdAdatto. I’m your host Brad Adatto still here with my awesome co-host Michael Byrd. Oh, shoot. Riley cut awesome. No one really wants to believe that. Michael, this season the theme is specialty spotlight. We had a lot of fun really just opening up about our father’s specialties and really kind of having a deep dive in understanding what they go through on a day to day basis and hearing from you on your dad’s perspective of really understanding from plastic surgery. There are a lot of similarities between that and orthopedic practice, and there’s so many things that are so different. You and I were talking before this show like, oh, well, that’s similar and that’s similar but that’s so different and like, okay yeah, they’re both surgeons, right? That’s similar. They both have to deal with sometimes, as you know, with a surgeon, they may have some trauma. People have been burned or injured so the orthopedics might be rebuilding the injury that happened before that and then the plastic surgeon comes in afterwards. [00:28:00] What are some of your observations just in general in today’s show between the orthopedic side of our dad’s specialties just in general?
Michael: Well, I think we can illustrate really easily how important it is to understand the nuances from a business and healthcare perspective that go into a specialty. Orthopedics and plastics actually meet each other at a certain point. There are hand specialists that work together, orthopedic hand specialists and plastic surgery hand specialists. Those two specialties end up having extremely similar issues. If you’re reviewing contracts for an orthopedic hand specialist and a plastic surgery hand specialist and then you take it all the way into one’s dealing with patients that have experienced a trauma and the other is experiencing elective medicine type stuff. Understanding that they, again, they both [00:29:00] have ancillary businesses and sometimes the same ancillaries, but with different issues. Orthopedics tends to have heavy federal regulatory implications because of the types of payers that are involved with their procedures and the types of services that are involved, the types of ancillaries. It just is kind of a great illustration from my perspective on how much difference it can make on the advice we give someone just depending on where they are from a specialty perspective.
Brad: Yeah. I can give the easy example we’ve talked about in other episodes, but when it comes to surgeries, orthopedics are proud to get somebody up and walking again or whatever the injury may be, right? While with plastics, they’re so proud of it, they’ll do a before and after. I don’t think I’ve ever seen good before and after pictures of someone replacing their [00:30:00] knee and looking at the before and after knee shots cause why? It’s gross. It’s a giant scar across your knee.
Michael: Well, we’ve seen them in the presentations, Brad, for other doctors and we were not the audience intended.
Brad: No
Michael: We didn’t handle it well
Brad: No, we didn’t.
Michael: So, any other final thoughts for today, Brad?
Brad: You know what? My biggest takeaway for today’s show is, we have this awesome team, audience members, who put together this great surprise for us because we were surprised to walk in and see our hundredth episode balloons, this cool cake that I’ll probably eat half of in about two seconds. Very thankful off camera, everyone for Riley and the rest of team that makes this go. We could not do that without them and shout out to all the ByrdAdatto team members who’ve helped us make our hundredth episode.
Michael: Yeah, I couldn’t agree more and I’m gonna type a thank you. It’ll be much faster than you can type it. I’m gonna just dust those skills off.
Brad: All right audience, guess what? Next [00:31:00] Wednesday’s show, we will actually have guests that aren’t Michael and I. Specialty spotlight will be on an orthopedic surgeon who’s also the team doctor for best NFL team out there. Karim Meijer will be joining us.
Outro: Thanks again for joining us today. And remember, if you like this episode, please subscribe. Make sure to give us a five- star rating and share with your friends. You can also sign up for the ByrdAdatto newsletter by going to our website at Byrdadatto.com. ByrdAdatto is providing this podcast as a public service. This podcast is for educational purposes only. This podcast does not constitute legal advice, nor does it establish an attorney- client relationship. Reference to any specific product or entity does not constitute an endorsement or recommendation by ByrdAdatto. The views expressed by guests are their own and their appearance on the program does not imply an endorsement of them or any entity they represent. Please consult with an attorney on your legal issues. [00:32:00]
