Considering adding weight loss services to your practice? Your patients already know the benefits—now it is time to stay ahead of the curve. In this week’s episode, board-certified plastic surgeon Dr. Johnny Franco shares his experience scaling a practice with weight loss services. Tune in for insights on various weight loss drugs available, the FDA Shortage List, compounding, and more. Discover what it takes to successfully integrate a new service line into your practice while ensuring compliance.
Listen to the full episode using the player below, or by visiting one of the links below. If you have any questions or would like to learn more, email us at info@byrdadatto.com.
Transcript
*The below transcript has been edited for readability.
Intro: [00:00:00] Welcome to Legal 123s with ByrdAdatto. Legal issues simplified through real client stories and real world experiences, creating simplicity in 3, 2, 1.
Brad: Welcome back to Legal 123s with ByrdAdatto. I’m your host, Brad Adatto, with my co-host, Michael Byrd.
Michael: As a business and health care law firm, we meet a lot of interesting people and learn their amazing stories. This season we’re talking about businesses who decide to double down. They’re going to scale their business. Our theme this season, Brad, is Growing a Business.
Brad: Yeah. Michael, for those who don’t know, growing a business is just one of four seasons of business. What are the others? What are the four?
Michael: What are the seasons?
Brad: Yeah.
Michael: So we have the building season, that’s when you’re starting a business; the operating season, so you’re running the business. We are on the scaling season now, and then there is the buying and selling season, so we’re talking about growing a business.
Brad: That’s right. Well, I’m [00:01:00] excited that we have one of our longtime clients and friends on today as a guest. Let’s be fun.
Michael: Yes. Audience, you are in for a treat. We are going to talk today about the implications of adding weight loss service to your practice.
Brad: Yeah. And for those not really tuned into the news in the last two years…
Michael: What, this has been in the news?
Brad: Yeah, yeah. We’re talking about weight loss drugs, Michael. They’re sweeping the nation. They have common terms. You may hear like Ozempic, Wegovy, MounjaroMano. There’s other titles up there too.
Michael: And the technical terms because I want to show off a little bit, GLP-1’s, Semaglutide, Tirzepatide. And Brad, we are not going to make you say Tirzepatide today.
Brad: Oh, no, no, hablo.
Michael: Yes. I know that you’re Brad Cajun language, we stay away from certain words. But seriously, Brad, in prepping for today’s show, I did find something and I’m curious about it. Have you tried “oatozempic”? It’s combining [00:02:00] the words oatmeal and Ozempic.
Brad: No, but what are you saying?
Michael: Well, nothing. I mean, you like oatmeal and I’ve noticed you’ve been looking a little slimmer, looking good. No, seriously. There is a TikTok craze and it’s a drink consisting of a half a cup of rolled oats, one cup of water, some lime juice, and a sprinkle of cinnamon. And there’s not actually any Ozempic in the drink, but apparently this is the TikTok craze on losing weight.
Brad: Well, that’s where we always should get our medical advice from. Okay, so who does this benefit?
Michael: Well, probably nobody. I know that in our lives, Brad, that we’ve seen a lot of weight loss trends that have blown up.
Brad: Especially you, you’re like 900, so you’ve seen a lot.
Michael: Yeah, could’ve seen that one coming, but nothing [00:03:00] has blown up like Semaglutide and Tirzepatide, like what we are seeing right now. But I’m curious, have you ever tried any of these trendy weight loss diets over the years? I know back in our day, there was the “Zone Diet” and even the “Atkins Diet” preceded us. It was kind of the OG.
Brad: Yeah. I mean, and I guess in the late nineties in New Orleans, there was something called the “Sugar Busters” that was written by a bunch of cardiologists that were trying to get their patients ready for surgery. And the concept was to cut sugar and carbs from your diet. And I did it until I stopped doing it.
Michael: So, for a day.
Brad: It worked for a while. I got to eat a lot of meat and red wine. I was pretty happy.
Michael: Okay. I feel like in my twenties I tried a bunch of the fad diets and they did not stick. But there’s one random thing that stuck till this day. I used to put sugar in my coffee when I first started as a practicing attorney. And one of my fad diets, I did, I don’t remember the name of the diet, did not allow sugar. So I stopped [00:04:00] putting sugar in my coffee. And for the last 30 years, I have not put sugar in my coffee. Still don’t know the diet, but that one thing stuck. But as far as things go for the past year, with the guidance of my trainer, I have been doing intermittent fasting.
Brad: Okay. Yeah. As someone who needs three squares a day, I’m allergic to the word fasting. What is intermittent fasting?
Michael: Well, there’s a ton of variations that basically go a long stretch without eating, and the most common version, which is what I do, is you basically go 14 to 16 hours from your dinner until your next meal the next day. And this has been a major trend over the last several years, particularly with men.
Brad: So I didn’t really realize it, but I think I’m doing this same type of fasting thing because I don’t eat between dinner and breakfast, so I guess I’m on the same diet.
Michael: Yeah. It’s just maybe not intermittent fasting. It’s [00:05:00] really like short spurt fasting. Well, there’s been mixed news actually recently on the efficacy of intermittent fasting. A much criticized study recently came out that concluded that intermittent fasting can actually be harmful. There’s a lot of critics to it and the critics point to the controls that were put in place for the study, but we know that all the feedback we’re getting on the weight loss stuff has been positive to date.
Brad: Okay. Well, this sounds like a good transition. Let’s bring on today’s guest to help bring on some facts to our audience about weight loss medication. So why don’t you bring them on, Michael.
Michael: Good transition, Brad. So joining us today is our friend and client Johnny Franco. Johnny is a board certified plastic surgeon in Austin, Texas. He’s the owner and founder of Austin Plastic Surgeon with locations in Austin and San Antonio. Johnny’s originally from [00:06:00] Las Cruces, New Mexico and is bilingual in Spanish and English. I don’t think he speaks Brad, so don’t go there.
Brad: Maybe he’ll speak it.
Michael: His undergrad is Beloit College Medical School, UT Galveston, just like my dad, that’s where I was born, residency at St. Louis. He was a chief resident. And we both have had the pleasure of lecturing with Johnny, and his passion for his work is very hard to miss. So we’re so excited to have you on Johnny. Welcome.
Johnny: No, thanks for having me. Super excited and a topic I’m passionate about because it’s been so personal. Just like you Michael and a lot of our patients, I’ve been on the weight loss journey myself. I was a, a college athlete. I was athletic and somewhere life kind of got in the way and slipped away somewhere. And so I’ve actually lost about 90 pounds on some of the weight loss medications myself, and that’s actually what got me started on this and then, and then eventually brought it into our practice.
Brad: Well, let me ask you this. Before you [00:07:00] did that, did you try any of these fad diets in college or beforehand?
Johnny: Definitely. Tried a lot of different things and some things worked for a little while. I definitely, yo-yo dieted it and unfortunately, as you guys know, that the older we get the harder we bounce back from some of the yo-yo diets and exercised and other things. And it was just hard to be super consistent. And I think that’s what was kind of the biggest hesitation when these medications hit the market, is there’s been so many things that have come through the past 15, 20, 30 years. Depends how long you’ve been in kind of the medical field, and there’s always the next greatest thing. And I think people thought this was going to come in and then burn out, but it hasn’t burned out. It’s only continued to increase steam. And what’s interesting too about these medications, if you’ve seen, is how many new indications that are beyond diabetes, beyond weight loss that have come. And so, when we talk about scaling the business and how you really want to position this, I think that’s important to take into effect as well. Because [00:08:00] how many people are going to see the other sequela of weight loss that really affects a lot of your clients in my field, the aesthetic field with weight loss in terms of skin laxity, volume loss, skin changes. And so, I think there’s a lot of different ways to approach this for opportunities for practices.
Michael: That’s amazing. Well, let’s take one step back because I want the audience to learn more just context-wise about your practice and what got you up to this point where you decided to add this kind of new service line to your business. So kind of introduce you and your practice to the audience.
Johnny: Yeah. It is super interesting. I moved to Austin probably about 10 years ago. Started my own practice about seven years ago. And then it was mostly a Lipo, fat transfer, and body contouring. And then I added a couple – added a new location, added a new partner. I’ll tell you, then the whole wellness side started. Personally, it was my birthday. Didn’t fit [00:09:00] into a brand new suit that I’d bought, actually tore the pants and was like, when I tore my pants, I was like, that’s it. I got to do something. Yeah. Yeah.
Michael: We all have that moment. I know.
Johnny: It was so interesting. I had started the medication myself and it did so well for me personally. The idea when we brought them onto our practice was, and most of your plastic surgeons probably have this in there, there were so many people that would come in and we would turn them away. Either their BMI was too high, multiple comorbidities, just not a good candidate for liposuction or any of the aesthetic procedures we do. And that’s where it started to help get them to a good spot before their surgery. And then we had so many other patients bringing in their significant others or patients that had had surgery, you know, they were great at one point. And then as well, their life got away and then just tried to get them back into a good spot. And when we started, I think the first month we introduced this, we had 15 to 20 patients and just kind of increased sequentially each month until this point we we’re just about under 2000 weight loss wellness [00:10:00] patients per month that we’d see in our office.
Brad: Wow. That’s amazing.
Michael: How long ago did you start this journey?
Johnny: We started at about a year and a half. I started the medications myself just under, it’ll be two years in October, so about just under two years.
Michael: Does that count as scaling, Brad?
Brad: Yes, it does. Well, that’s great, I mean, a great transition there that we’re focused on growing business this year, Johnny. And I read an article recently that talked about that more than 25,000 people are starting to use Wegovy each week. And so in hearing your story, talk about this journey about adding these weight loss patients for you guys.
Johnny: It’s definitely been a, a huge process over the course of the last 14 months, we’ve actually added 60 employees to our office, which has been definitely a huge endeavor, including an internal medicine doctor to help us with doing this super safely and obviously consulting your team all the time. And we’ll get back to that because I think it’s super exciting. But it’s definitely a changing world [00:11:00] and your team knows because they get calls and emails from me all the time. And so I do think people who are thinking about this really need to be strategic about it. And I think they really need to partner with somebody that’s going to help guide them because it is an evolving field. As you know, anything that’s explosive have a lot of changes.
But I’ll say a couple things in terms of kind of scaling and growing this is, I think really being strategic about how you add this and where you go. Because if you look at it, Wegovy itself is probably the least used of those medications, and it is adding 25,000 people a week. And you’re not even talking about Zepbound, which has already been found to be more effective in weight loss. There’s a, a new company that’s trying to come to the market that’ll probably have a new drug that’s not Nova, that’s not Lilly, in probably about the next 16 months or so. Lilly is bringing a new drug to the market that’ll be equivalent to bariatric surgery in terms of weight loss at one year. I mean, there [00:12:00] is a lot of exciting stuff still headed our way, because I hear people all the time say, oh, I’ve missed the boat in terms of people trying to lose weight. I was like, that’s not true. I mean, go anywhere and you can see there’s lots of us that still need to fine tune stuff a little bit, so this is not going away.
Brad: And audience members, he stared really long at Michael when he said that.
Michael: That’s true. It’s true.
Brad: Did you have one too many donuts, Michael?
Michael: I just got back from Europe, so I did enjoy myself.
Brad: That’s okay. I just got back from New Orleans and I understand.
Michael: Well, that’s really exciting talk, just from a business perspective, a little bit about, you know, you have this normal practice, you’ve had to hire 60 people, you have to integrate this. I mean, what are the things that people should be thinking about when you’re wanting to add this service line into your otherwise medical practice?
Johnny: [00:13:00] I think at this point, if people are really trying to grow their business with the weight loss, I think they need to decide what’s going to be their unique value proposition to this. Because I think if you go back two years ago, just adding it to your practice was enough to drive business in your office. That’s not true anymore because you’re, you’re battling a lot of the online stuff, you’re bound a lot of the practices that now have it, and so just like if you were adding any injectables, Botox, other stuff to your practice, you have to have a real plan in terms of that. So I think that’s number one, though. I do think there is some huge opportunities because there’s this whole wellness wave and we’ve seen it where I think there is an opportunity to and grow your patient base to your office.
But also, the real value that I’ve seen for a lot of practices that have come and visit us is, re-engaging their own patient base. So scaling doesn’t necessarily have to mean growing an entire new base. For a lot of surgeons, they have patients, they do their surgeries, they trust you, they love you already, but they may not need something until 15, 20 years down the road. You know, you did their breast job, now [00:14:00] you’re going to do their facelift 20, 30 years. But there’s a big way to gap them in between and really get them to a good spot. And so I tell a lot of practitioners that come visit our office, that that’s a great starting point. But if I could take even one step back, I would say the thing that was most helpful, and I’m not saying this just because you guys are here, I’d say this on any other you know, podcast or educational thing I do; just like you would any other treatment – if you’re building a surgery center, if you were building out any other kind of service line, really write up your business plan.
Like, what is my focus here? How am I going to do this? Where do I really see this fitting? Because if not, you’re going to spend a lot of time and money and you’re not going to make any progress, and you’re going to feel like you’ve wasted that. And worse off, if you don’t truly do every steps in terms of your protocol safety, because even though we think weight loss, it’s still a real medication. And if you don’t talk to your legal team, varies from state to state, the compounds vary from state to state of what you can and can’t do, and those things are evolving. So if you’re not engaged with your legal team about those [00:15:00] changes, you cannot find out until you’re in some serious problems. Not only did it not make you a lot of money, it’s actually costed you problems.
Brad: Yeah. Well, I’m going to take a step back further, Johnny. You’re a plastic surgeon and obviously you’re a built on surgeon. When you’re talking to other plastic surgeons and you’re trying to encourage them to add this wellness or this weight loss program to it, are you getting pushback saying, no, that’s not what we do. I don’t see a reason to get into that. Are you hearing any kind of feedback like that?
Johnny: It’s funny. I used to hear a lot more of it. We’ve seen a lot less of it now. I think what’s been so unique about these medications is the absolute, you know, is the safety profile of them. But I do think like any medication, you really have to do it right. Systematically and safely. And I think this is where some of the protocols come. But it’s interesting because [00:16:00] people say, oh, it’s plastic surgeons, but we’re always taught when we were in training, I mean, most of us. Like I ran the burn unit, those were much more complex patients than these GLP. We ran the ICUs for these critical care patients, and we’ve always talked about we want patients to be in the best possible shape before their surgery, and now we have the opportunity to do it.
I do think, and this is where we’ve been working with some of the societies, I do think like anything, if you’re learning a new facelift technique or you didn’t do a lot of facelifts, or you didn’t do a lot of tummy tucks in your training, a hundred percent you should get some training. A hundred percent you should make sure that you’re educated and you’ve done this. And I think this is where it’s been great that some of our mutual friends, Dr. Steven Williams at ASPS, we’re going to do some lectures and some training stuff there, because I do think that people need to be educated and make sure they’re doing this safely. So a hundred percent, I think there’s some pushback. I think being able to, as a society educate and train people appropriately is paramount. And the nice thing is though a lot of [00:17:00] people do want to do it, but they do want to do it safely and take the extra steps, which has been reassuring.
Michael: One of the questions we get a lot, I know you deal with this and it, is that the reason this has exploded in a number of ways is because of the ability to compound these medications. It just gives so much more access. Talk a little bit about, from a business perspective, how you view that risk, because what allows it to be compounded is that it’s on the shortage list and kind of what your view is on where we are now and kind of where this is headed.
Johnny: I think that’s what’s going to be challenging and a little bit of the unknown. And so recently the Eli Lilly CEO said that it would be off the shortage list in a couple days. That hasn’t happened to date. And the FDA has kept it on the shortage list. I think there’s still some, some time for that. I also think there’s a lot of [00:18:00] new medications rolling out and the anticipation is the moment that those medications hit the market, they will hit the shortage list. Also with the new indications, I think it’s challenging. I also think it’s important for people to understand, just because stuff is off the shortage list, that means that the companies can provide the demand. It doesn’t mean that they provide the demand at a cost that people want to pay.
And so, it’s not necessarily going to decrease the cost of the medications when they come off the shortage list for the name brands. And so I think that’s what’s really been challenging. I do think that practices need to diversify a little bit in terms of, if you’re doing this wellness, and I think your only stronghold is, I’m going to base everything on this compound, I’m trying to make a lot of money on the medication itself; I think you’re holding a lot of risk. And I know you guys do a lot of talks from private equity and things. There’s been some pushback, you know, in terms of that is your sole [00:19:00] basis of expanding your business because they feel like there’s risk there too that they don’t know what’s going to happen.
But if you can use the weight loss as part of your overall wellness program and you’re using that to drive people in, but then have a real plan of how you’re getting them to go throughout that journey to skin tightening, to volume enhancement. Like for us, we’ve incorporated this entire package. If I can expand for a little bit. There’s home lab test that you can do. One, improves your safety. Two, helps do an overall check for patients. So not only are they losing weight but you’re also checking their hormone levels so you can move them to everything that’s going to be to a great spot. Because there’s lots of reasons people don’t lose weight or aren’t at a great spot. And some of it may be lifestyle habits, but some of it may be other medical issues that just haven’t been either identified or diagnosed. And unfortunately, as we age, those things start to pop up a little by little.
Brad: Yeah. And I’m going to get a little, not scientific, but into the nuances and love to hear your thoughts here is generally speaking, right [00:20:00] now with all these drugs, it’s injected-based, man, you’re going to have to inject it into your body. And as you probably know, there are a lot of people that, number one, either terrified or needles or they have to go home and medicate themselves. That makes them nervous too. What are you hearing in the industry about their ability to move this into a pill of some sort? And if so, do you think that’s even going to accelerate this even more?
Johnny: A hundred percent. There’s already some pill forms, they’re just not nearly as effective. And so, that’s why they haven’t caught much news or much traction stuff because the amount of weight loss is so much less than the injectable. But it’s funny how they’ve taken to our courses. If you look at Eli Lilly, they have a triple G that’s coming to the market, most likely it’ll be fast tracked. It started phase three trials already. You know, so you’ll probably see it at some point in 2025. Nova has taken exactly to your point, they’re turning the semaglutide into an oral version that they claim will be [00:21:00] equal to the injectable, and so that should be available in 2025 as well. Both will likely hit the shortage list the moment they hit the market for the reason that you said. So the idea that this is going away or that there’s not opportunities and that there’s – and I always tell people, like, even if you don’t want to necessarily do the weight loss in your own office, the number one most visited page on our website – we’ve been revamping the web, our website is like most people, it’s a continual process every couple years.
We recently redid our Ozempic base page, and then the first four days that it went live, over 250,000 visits in place. But just shows you how many people are searching for these terms, right? And so just showing this world of opportunity that’s grown, and honestly new challenges for us. I mean, we’ve never seen so many young people with weight loss and skin issues and skin laxity, so I think there’s opportunities for people [00:22:00] to take control of a space that nobody owns. Even in crowded cities like Dallas and Austin and New York and LA, you know, across the country.
Brad: So you’ve been in this space now for about a year and a half, what have you learned going through this process of adding this weight loss service line?
Johnny: One, it was surprising, like how receptive patients are to it. But two, I’m surprised every day how many people come into the office and they still say, “I’ve never heard about this, I don’t know anything about it.” And I think sometimes we have such a slanted view because we’re in it all the time. I know you guys get calls, emails all the time and we’re always in it. But anything out of your specialty, you may not be involved in it. So I think there’s just so many opportunities. I think there’s so many tweaking. I think some of the things that’s challenging for aesthetic practices is, how do you help people throughout that entire journey? And I think that’s going to be the key for a lot of practices in terms of truly improving their business dramatically right away [00:23:00] is adding this into their practice, but then how are you speaking to them in a way that’s going to move them along? And I’ll tell you that that’s been a little harder because you may be driving new patients into your office, but they weren’t necessarily aesthetic-based to begin with. And so I think it takes a little bit more effort, a different speaking tone, and definitely patience of being there along for the journey just to help them when they’re ready.
Michael: Yeah. Interesting. Well, one of kind of our wrap up question is, and it’s kind of a little bit of a plug for you because you’ve been helping other businesses and help other practices do this. I’d love for you to spend a little bit of time talking about what you’ve been doing, what your plans are doing to support other practices that are kind of interested in adding this type of a service line to their practice.
Johnny: Yeah, it was interesting ’cause when we started our training program, I actually called it Scaling Skinny. And so it was basically all about weight loss and expanding and kind of to some of the stuff I’ve talked about, we’re actually in the process of doing [00:24:00] a rebrand and now calling it Biohacking Beyond Beauty because it really has evolved into this overall wellness. The more we’ve been involved, the more we’ve seen that how many opportunities and how many questions patients have about really their overall wellness. And the moment they start their weight loss journey, you realize how many other little things you can do. And you guys were talking about it earlier about the intermittent fasting and some of these, there’s so much new technology coming to the market to be able to help people make real decisions for their weight loss, their health.
There’s a genome test now that can actually tell you how predictive – can predict how responsive you’re going to be to these GLP medications. So if you can’t get them through the compound and you’re going to spend a thousand dollars a month, you really want to know whether it’s going to work or not. You know, some of the other things, to your point about the intermittent fasting, the exact times, there’s a device called Lumen where you can actually – and I do it myself and it’s funny, little changes have made such a huge difference, but you actually blow into it. It tells [00:25:00] you your metabolic output, so it can tell you the exact precise times that you should be eating or not because it’s actually a little bit different for every person, whether you’re burning curves, fats, and stuff. So, we started integrating all this in to really help guide people that want to make real lifestyle changes. And so interesting how tell technology and some of this stuff, it makes it so tailored to you individually. And part of that whole app is, it actually has an AI where now you can just take a picture of your food, if food logs it for you, and after about two weeks it starts making recommendations of how to tweak some of that.
Michael: Oh, wow.
Brad: Does that same device, if I use it, will it tell me if I need another cocktail?
Johnny: Yeah. That should be version 2.0.
Michael: Wow. It’s so fascinating.
Brad: I know, this is so cool.
Michael: We are out of time. Johnny, I know. We’re so grateful for you joining us today. Your passion is contagious. What we’ll do next… Well, first of all, thank you for coming. We will [00:26:00] go into commercial and on the other side we will have a few legal insights. Thanks for joining us.
Johnny: I appreciate you guys having me. Thanks.
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Brad: Welcome back to Legal 123s with ByrdAdatto. I’m your host, Brad Adatto, with my co-host, Michael Byrd. Now Michael, as you know, this season we are concentrating on growing a business, which means we’re in a scaling season. And boy, we had a just incredible, I mean, an athletic gentleman [00:27:00] joining us really dropping some knowledge about how do you scale a practice when dealing with weight loss. Amazing things that he brought up, and coming from his background of being a plastic surgeon and then being a patient himself losing 90 pounds. All that was amazing. But what I started thinking about was, here’s somebody who’s a plastic surgeon’s focus on one area. And because it started helping and benefiting his patients, he started drifting away from his primary training. But as you heard, with this passion, he’s adding all these team members to it and really learning. And now he’s teaching others on how to add this to your practice itself. And there’s a terminology that we often call practice drifting, which is leaving what you’re officially trained on and adding new things, which is not any problem with that, but there is a skill that has to come with that.
Michael: Yeah. Well, and from a compliance perspective, which is our world, you have to maintain standard of [00:28:00] care. Yes. And so, it may – the first iteration of I am a plastic surgeon and I can help with weight loss and that’s going to help support the treatment of the different other fat reduction or other types of surgeries that it goes kind of hand in glove. But then you listen to Johnny and he starts talking about wellness. And so that then turns into other wellness things. And so, this whole concept of practice drift can sound negative, but it’s really more of, you have to stay on top of the standard of care perspective and make sure you have a team that’s on top of it because you keep expanding beyond kind of your core original competency.
And then there’s also kind of a compliance drift component to it, which is as you keep [00:29:00] adding things, understanding, is this still a medical treatment that you’re dealing with? How is it regulated? Whatever it happens to be because it may be another pharmaceutical component or it may be a component that is still medical, but that you have others implementing, and do these people have the right training? And so it’s just such a great example in a short amount of time of this concept of drift that you see, whether it’s practice drift or compliance drift that you want to make sure you stay on top of.
Brad: Yeah. And to your point, I mean, as you do these and add these new techniques and you nailed it, you’re now doing something new and different and are you being consistent with that standard of care? And that’s the most important piece as you add these on. And hopefully as you heard with Johnny, he’s super passionate about it. But we’re about to be out of time, Michael, do you have any final thoughts?
Michael: Well, I think you need to watch out for intermittent fasting drift, Brad, because you do short spurt fasting. [00:30:00] And if you drift from your just few hours of fasting between dinner and breakfast, then you get very angry.
Brad: Yes, this is true.
Michael: And we don’t want that around the office.
Brad: No angry around the office. I agree with that. Michael, we are back next Wednesday, audience members, and the two of us will be here, and we’re going to be discussing embracing compliance while scaling. Thanks again for joining us today. And remember, if you like this episode, please subscribe, make sure to give us a five star rating and share with your friends.
Michael: You can also sign up for the ByrdAdatto newsletter by going to our website at byradtto.com.
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